A pre-dive meal at KFC or MickeyD's to reduce risk of DCS?+

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My error and I see your concern ... a liter of juice before every dive and a baby aspirin PER DAY! If I took an aspirin before every dive there are many days that I'd have bled out late in the first day.

The theory in the old days was that DCS involved clotting, the theory today is that my Cardiologist says to take one aspirin every day, even if I don't dive.

Sorry about any confusion that I might have created.
 
Terry Giles has an INCREDIBLE (in the truest sense) understanding of how material gets into and out of cells which, from his website called Science, (innovative health solutions 4 life) seems to violate a lot of the rules of concentration dependent mass transfer as well as active transport. And if you are hydrated properly you are less prone to virus infection, imagine that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence which to me is quite lacking.
Bill
 
So they make a study of "this doesn't work at all".
It should be comforting that studies reach this conclusion on occasion.
 
Terry Giles has an INCREDIBLE (in the truest sense) understanding of how material gets into and out of cells which, from his website called Science, (innovative health solutions 4 life) seems to violate a lot of the rules of concentration dependent mass transfer as well as active transport. And if you are hydrated properly you are less prone to virus infection, imagine that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence which to me is quite lacking.
Bill
What is incredible are the results people get with his diets and products, specifically the H20 Overdrive. Exactly what product have you made that is better, or , what products do you think are better....

I care alot more about what drink will allow me to ride faster, and farther, prior to exhaustion, and which will alllow quicker recovery.
Clearly, you are only capable of picking on issues which are apparently irrelevant, in the actual performance of the hydration product.

If you are looking for me to get a response from Terry, I most likely could do this in a couple of days....but the bottom line still is, the Overdrive product works vastly better than Gatorade, or pure water alone, and something tells me this would have you scratching your head, and unable to explain.... :)
 
What is incredible are the results people get with his diets and products, specifically the H20 Overdrive. ....but the bottom line still is, the Overdrive product works vastly better than Gatorade, or pure water alone, and something tells me this would have you scratching your head, and unable to explain.... :)

Au contraire, Dan. The placebo effect has massive explanatory power.

However, I'd be more than happy to consider any reputable, published science (with citations) regarding this specific product as a package. To my reading, the product website does not do so --> Landing Page. In fact, the "Science" section of that website is so lacking in referenced science/research that it's simply laughable.

In the meantime, it seems that not all serious bike riders are quite as enthusiastic as you, e.g., --> H20 Overdrive Sports Drink - Bike Hugger

But, as the Bike Hugger said, "...it could work wonders for you and get you through your next big ride." If you're one of these folks, that's all to the good.

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
Au contraire, Dan. The placebo effect has massive explanatory power.

However, I'd be more than happy to consider any reputable, published science (with citations) regarding this specific product as a package. To my reading, the product website does not do so --> Landing Page. In fact, the "Science" section of that website is so lacking in referenced science/research that it's simply laughable.

In the meantime, it seems that not all serious bike riders are quite as enthusiastic as you, e.g., --> H20 Overdrive Sports Drink - Bike Hugger

But, as the Bike Hugger said, "...it could work wonders for you and get you through your next big ride." If you're one of these folks, that's all to the good.

Regards,

DocVikingo

Doc,
I know all about the placebo effect, but the differences in performance would be impossible for placebo to accomplish...Again, I have been cycling since 1980, and always used nutrition to help out compete my peers.....
In the bike hugger article, there is a discussion afterward that Giles enters, and offers quite a bit more.

It is true that in cycling, many riders find one taste they like, and will stick to it, no matter what....a choice like cycto max can be such a choice....though cytomax IS a decent sports drink, unlke Gatorade, which sells because of a massive ad budget, and good taste ( not related to any performance benefits).... Moreover, I began this by saying that certain ratios were critical in a sports drink or electrolyte product ( this is not placebo related), and the issue of how much sodium, versus how much potassium, is HUGE!
This seems to have gone right over the head of bvanant.... A high sodium, low postassium drink with 32 grams of sugar in a serving, should be the object of scorn....yet THIS is getting no discussion :confused:

Anyway, hopefully I have not gotten on the wrong side of these postings with you, as I ALWAY look forward to reading your comments, and see you as a spectacular resource for this community...... :)
 
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While DanV's comments about hydration may be very appropriate for athletes in rigorous training, or for people in hot tropical climates, I doubt they are by any means universal. I dive in temperate waters in a temperate climate. I do tend to drink a reasonable amount of water, often exceeding eight cups a day when I'm diving but rarely that when I'm topside. When I dive in the tropics, I tend to drink much more water. Water loss by the body varies based on not only external factors like weather, but also on a person's metabolism and physiology.
 
A couple of additional points... :)
Placebo effect....take a weight lifter with a max bench press of 225 pounds, convince him product X will triple his strength, and he may lift 235 or 240...He is highly UNlikley to bench 335, and would not be able to do this repeadedly, even if he accomplished it once...this being placebo effect...as it occurs in some gyms...for a cyclist, it could be holding 22 mph for ten minutes, when nhormally 21 mph for ten would be all that is possible... with Overdrive, a Cat 4 rider can hang at Cat 3 rider speeds, and recover so well that the following day and 2nd day after, they are as fresh as the Cat 3 rider would be..less micro damage to muscle fibers from less catabolic activity during ride, and more glycogen in primary muscles. And this is repeatable...

Why this does not occur for every one.....
This being "my interpretation".. :)
One nutritional expert I like is Dr Mercola....He explains people's ability to do well with certain foods, as having a genetic basis, and that ( simplistically), there are people that had ancestry and competitive advantage when eating a high protein and fat diet, with limited carbs ( see as northen, teutonic, viking, etc) and their are people that do better with fruits and vegetables, with limited need for proteins--and problems with certain protein types and concentrations in the diet...these being more equatorial in ancestry.

I think some sports drinks are easier for some athletes to digest efficiently, due to these drinks fitting these athlete's genetic/digestive profile better.
Personally, I am finding I do much better with lots of protein, almost no sugar if possible, and limited carbs ( all carbs I get now from vegetables, never rice or potatoes any more, and never fruit). I do very well in my recovery from intense workouts, with steak, fish and chicken and eggs, at 25 to 30 gram per serving amounts, 3 to 4 meals per day.
I know some cyclists, that do amazingly well with pasta, which is terrible for me....these same guys, have big problems if they have a big steak dinner.

I think this relates to sports drinks.... It is possible, that the concentrated aminos in Overdrive, work well in me, and many other cyclists or other atletes that are "Protein types", as Mercola calls them. The ones that are carb types, may do better with one of the sport drinks with a much lower protein ratio, and different carb base. The athletes that fall in the middle between Protein types and Carb types, will not get a HUGE advantage with either extreme in sports drinks, and may well go on what tastes best.

For those that "can" do well with Overdrive, the protein-carb ratio drives water into the cells faster than pure water alone can get in, and Giles has many studies to prove this, as does the industry...this is not contentious. Some athletes, for the reasons I suggested, may get more benefit than others, due to their genetics.
Some will not like the taste, some will love it....Taste does need to be acceptable, for the sports drink to work. You have to drink a lot of it :)

The issue of how much sodium a drink should have, versus how much potassium, should not be in dispute, and I am a little surprised this was not recognized by more posters about how bad gatorade is.....that, and the idea of creating a drink with so much sugar, that it almost would guarantee causing insulin sensitivity in heavy users. This is part of the discussion we are having...Plenty of soda's on dive boats have lots of sodium in them, and lots of sugar....Part of my reason for even posting, was to provide a different direction than sodas on a dive boat....
 
Just looking at this from the standpoint of gas solubility being well hydrated might let you sink an extra 1% of nitrongen. That is based on Haldanes estimate that a 70 Kg diver at saturation dissolves 1 extra liter of nitrogen for every extra atmosphere of pressure, and the solubility of nitrogen in water at body temperature which is .011 liters of dissolved gas/liter of water. But if you assume ongassing and offgassing rates are the same, or at least nearly so, then there shold be no, or <<1%, change in DCS risk with hydration levels. I picked 1 liter since I know after a 3 plus hour run on a summer day I can loose about 4 pounds or about 2 liters of sweat. That is pretty dehydrated. I would think that you would really have to work at being dehydrated by more than a liter going into a dive.
 
Just looking at this from the standpoint of gas solubility being well hydrated might let you sink an extra 1% of nitrongen. That is based on Haldanes estimate that a 70 Kg diver at saturation dissolves 1 extra liter of nitrogen for every extra atmosphere of pressure, and the solubility of nitrogen in water at body temperature which is .011 liters of dissolved gas/liter of water. But if you assume ongassing and offgassing rates are the same, or at least nearly so, then there shold be no, or <<1%, change in DCS risk with hydration levels. I picked 1 liter since I know after a 3 plus hour run on a summer day I can loose about 4 pounds or about 2 liters of sweat. That is pretty dehydrated. I would think that you would really have to work at being dehydrated by more than a liter going into a dive.

Maybe it was a mistake for me to make any mention of gas solubility or gas exchange.... Maybe the direction I should have taken is the more physically obvious charicteristics takingt place in a dehydrated diver..... when muscles are dehydrated, they cramp easier, and contract less powerfully--meaning more exertion is required to achieve propusion or any movements....the cramping or more inefficiently contracting dehydrated muscles, have been shown to interfere with offgassing, by restricting blood flow.....you need your muscles relaxed and uncontracted, when doing deco stops and when ascending. I have a great "story" on this, if needed :) , that includes a doppler to prove the point.

If my bloodflow can be much better, due to effective hydration, then this is a strong arguement for the ideal hydration drink, and the optimal volume to be consumed.
I would also sugest, that on a Florida dive boat 2 tank dive this time of year, many of us wearing a wet suit, will lose more than a quart and a half of body fluids in the duration of the trip.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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