A more specific scenario

[Doc Intrepid]

Small cuddy, walk around, open in the back,...

I'm not a boat owner, although everyone else in my family is. We grew up on Lake Superior, around Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. I used to dive frequently between Marquette and Whitefish Point. So my comments fall into the "for what it's worth" category...

Weather conditions can change dramatically and rapidly on Lake Superior. Aside from waves, it can get amazingly cold under the right conditions. I used to dive with a group of guys who owned three older boats, all between 25' and 30' trailerables, all with cabins amidships with a second pilot station on top of the cabin, and canvas/clear plastic shrouds that could be installed over the open aft deck and stern...with seriously burly heaters!

More than once we went out in the morning under clear or partly cloudy skies, and raced back in under heavy grey scud while freezing our tails off. I was always grateful for the enclosed back ends and the heaters...

In terms of seas, we were racing in to Whitefish Point on one occasion and a guy got his arm broken simply from the jolt of the bow dropping off the crest of a good size wave in a mid-size boat.

If you're gonna drop some major ching on a boat for Lake Superior diving, I suggest you take a season and get out on some of the various charters up there before buying. If you spend an entire season going out on some of the various charters, you'll have a much better developed sense of the weather conditions you'll deal with and features you may want on a boat of your own.

Better to do the research up front and be a more informed buyer, than to buy a boat and afterwards determine that it won't let you go out for more than 5-6 days in any given month due to seas and weather.

Then again...perhaps I simply got weird weather and seas every time I went out whereas you'll always have flat seas and sunshine! Never can tell...

Regards,

Doc

 

[pcarlson1911]

Skull - You are very correct concerning the period ofthe waves on erie. It is more like 3' chop not 3' waves. Very Jarring to be in in any boat.

As far as venturing off shore, that is where the diving is. We don't venture out in iffy weather. On thursday the lake was glass. A perfect dayto be out. If the lake came up while we were out we we have difficulties? yes. So we choose times when it is unlikely for the lake to come up. When the balance is right between risk and consequences,things usually turn out well. As for your boat choice, simply too big and heavy. Weeed to be able to trailer, and a 29' whaler with and enclosed cc is simply to beastly. If we were only going to dive locally, we would put it ina slip and it would be perfect.

 

[pcarlson1911]

Doc -
Thanks for your insight. Superior can be very unforgiving. I was a student at Tech and spent a good amount of time on the lake. Maybe more time than in class.

Anyway, I'm guessing that some might argue this, but if a boat can handle Erie, it can handle superior. Seems likea backward statement, buterie is more shallow. Storms come upmore quickly, and the wave periodis so short it is relentless. that being said, the weather swing is more severe in the up. Summer in the morning winter in the afternoon.....

I think I need a boat for each ofthe lakes.
pc

 

[Nemrod]

Do you know about?

www.OhioMAST.org


There are those who will tell you to purchase the largest boat possible. I am not one of those. I would tell you to get one you can afford, can tow with normal vehicles, can store, can handle and if that means you have to pick your weather or wear a sweater then so be it. I don't consider a 30 footer trailerable unless you have a locomotive to pull it with. You said summertime and you seemed to be saying you had plenty of time on your hands in the summer so no rush to GO NOW vs tomorrow when the conditions might be better.

That boat your looking at, that company went through an ownership change, they now build a line of larger low/mid line boats. They seem to currently use some type of composite structure in lieu of wooden stringers and floor---not sure--but--it seems that not that long ago it was one of those rotting eyesores I mentioned. Be careful there, a little research goes a long way.

Also, others may differ, I recommend either and outboard or an inboard and I sincerely hate I/O boats, vibrating pieces of junk lag screwed down to rotting lumber--not my cup of tea. Also, unlike an outboard, when green water fills the boat, the engine goes under. Does it have a snorkel--lol?

Good luck, looks like a lot of interesting places/wrecks for you to explore up there. N

 

[pcarlson1911]

Yes I do know about MAST. The buoys they have placed are fantastic. I was hoping to find a MAST Buoy on the Duke Ludtke. No such luck, maybe next year.

The 1996 model year is when Baha began using the no rot construction....

pc

 

[Skull]

Slip fees are relatively cheep in the out laying areas of Cleveland. If you live east there is Ashtabula Habor ... relatively inexpensive. Trailering a boat can be a hassle considering road surface conditions in the Cleveland area.

FWIW, I put my 21' cuddy in a slip this summer in San Diego and can tell you straight up walking down the dock and onto your boat is way less stressful than waiting in line at the ramp while every one is launching. Worse yet waiting to find a spot on the dock while waiting to trailer your boat. Just a thought.

Here slips run from 10-100 bucks/ foot / month. I'm sure the price is the same in Cleveland.

My buddy with the 29' BWhaler towes his rig with a 85 -F250 more than enough power ..course the freeways and roads here never see ice and salt so there are very few potholes. However San Diego is very hilly and he never complains about towing that rig. He got the thing from the USN Amphib Command here in San Diego and from what I've seen/experienced it was very inexpensive but a amazing work horse on the water. I ran into him south of SD outside of the Coronado islands earlier this summer ... on the windward side ...tremdous chop and 2-3ft swells w/ refracted waves off the island ..his rig was sound and stable ...mine well lets just say I was scrubing breakfast off of my rig most of the day.

Keep in mind that when you need to exit the water, this in my mind is where the proper size boat is crucial. On Lake Erie you need a stable platform to do this ...especially if you have an injured diver or sea sick divers. That lake as you know is very unforgiving ...and come summer time she is a very hungry lake. Mistakes are fast a furious, I've watched guys trying to enter the lake via Walnut Creek under small craft advisories (mostly "mup-heres" from Pittsburg) and was just astounded by the ferosity of the waves ...and the sky was blue.

Nemrod is usually right concerning boats ...actually dead on right ... but out on Lake Erie the weather can change on a dime. If you have never experienced it don't guess or rationalize what you might expect...buy the most boat you can afford and rig it with a solid radio, GPS/Sounder and Radar, vessel assist and health and safety gear.

 

[Nemrod]

Everyone gives good advice, please don' think it is arguing, we are just talking.

Oh, while out and about, we saw many 20 foot (plus or minus) boats out on the lakes. I wonder sometimes, blasphemy I am sure, but I don't think the GL are any worse than the Gulf. Come the Gales of November, however, you will not find me out there!!!

In 1998 I took off out of Oshkosh in my homebuilt and after deciding that going east was favored by the winds more than west altered course and went out over the lake. That Lake Mich. is a big lake. I dropped down to about 10 feet off the water flying along and could see what looked like one foot chop and other areas with glassy water as I approached the eastern shore and climbed on back up to a proper altitude. There were lot's of boats out, it was a blue sky day with gentle winds, the lake looked blue and clear out in the middle and I even saw a few schools of fish at the surface. What would those have been?

In the early 60s my dad bought a used 19/20 foot Lyman Lapstrake with 75 horse Johnson. My dad rebuilt the boat from the ground up with me and my little brother helping. The engine was brand new factory remanufactured. The boat was ALL WOOD and beautiful. Upon completion my dad slipped it. That lasted about two months before my dad pulled it and bought a trailer. We had to redo considerable areas on the boat that winter and the bright work was dulled and had to be redone. My dad cursed and ranted, my little brother cried, the dogs ran and hid and I took note. Keeping a boat in the water slipped is why they call them a hole in the water into which money is poured and they make you pay for the horror of it by the foot. N

 

[Hank49]

. Keeping a boat in the water slipped is why they call them a hole in the water into which money is poured and they make you pay for the horror of it by the foot. N

I agree. I now have to pull my boat down 3 miles of dirt (or mud) road to the launch and it's a pain in the butt. But the boat will still look almost new after 3-5 years. A boat left in the water ages much faster. Especially in the tropical sun and salt.

 

[captain]

Water is water, wind is wind and waves are waves. Doesn't much matter where. When the wind gets to force 6 you better be able to handle a boat no matter what size and most good boats can operate in heavier weather than their operators can safely. I had operated small boats for 25 years but it wasn't until I faced steady 55 knot winds with gusts to 70 knots for two and a half hours during a late summer cold front on the Gulf of Mexico in a 31 foot boat did I really gain confidence in my ability. Over a dozen boats sunk that day, some bigger than mine.

 

[Skull]

Keep in mind folks you simply cannot keep your boat in a slip for more than 5-6 months on Lake Erie. Most Marinas require you to dry dock it before thanksgiving weekend and usually you wouldn't put it in before the last snow around mid April early May.

Just a thought as well.

Course there are some hearty forks out there chasing steelhead and rainbows in early spring ...but diving before the ice is completly gone ...I wouldn't chance a hull rupture. Then again with Global Warming maybe the lake freezing over is a thing of the past ....easy on the responses folks