a few specific questions about BP/W set up (not again!!)

[halocline]

After lurking for a while on this forum, I'm interested enough in a BP/wing set up to ask a few specific questions. I'd appreciate any answers based on personal experience; as I know there's a lot of hype about diving BP/W.

1. I'm looking for a set up for use with a single tank only, usually AL80. Warm water use, usually I don't dive with anything more than a 3 mil. Anybody tried the jetharness plates? Is there an advantage to a flat plate for single tanks? It seems that there would be.

2. I typically dive with 8-10 lbs in the ocean, a few less in fresh water. I think my current BC, an old scubapro vest, is a couple of lbs positive. Could I be in a situation where I'm negative with no lead if a get a SS plate, and if so (I guess this is most likely in fresh water) is this going to be much of a problem? With my current set up, if I'm overweighted and have to put more air in my BC at depth, it definitely screws with my trim. But, in that case, I'm wearing an air-filled vest and lead around my hips.

3. I understand the trim advantages of a SS plate. But, let's say I were to get a more neutral plate, like an aluminum or even the jet harness ABS plate. Would there be any advantages to this over a soft harness, like a transpac, or for that matter, a simple back inflate like the zeagel scout? Would I lose the trim advantage of a SS plate by going with a lighter one? It's not that I mind a weight belt.

4. Anyone familiar with the jetharness wing? Looks alot like the dive-rite travel wing, only it's quite a bt cheaper.

Thanks!

 

[zboss]

1) I dive two different plates - an Abyss 6# stainless steel and a Hammerhead 6# I just picked up...I have never used the plate you speak of but both my plates work just fine without a single tank adapter.

2) Yes - it is completely possible to end up negative. Especially if you dive with a negative tank. The single tank adapter I got with my Hammerhead I can use on either one of my plates but being SS itself it's a bit too heavy to dive. Together they add up to about 10.5 pounds which is too much unditchable weight for my 3mm.

3) You will end up wanting to get several plates to use in different situations. The above example in #2 above is just one... if I had an alum instead of two SS, I could mix and match to fit my dive. BTW - I have both hogarthian configuration and a dive rite transpac.

4) don't know! But I would make sure that the shell weave is as thick as or thicker than it's competitors. I would also ask what the thickness of the bladder is. I'm sure it's fine but it doesn't hurt to ask. Also - ask if the inflator can be replaced, and if so - where to get a replacement. Ask about the valves for the pull dump and if they can be user replaceable.

 

[H2Andy]

if you dive with an AL80, you won't be too overweight with a stainless steel plate.
you'll probably be at just below negative

if you dive with steel tanks, it might be too much to have the steel plate too.
i would go with an aluminum plate in that case

 

[kidspot]

The Jetharness looked to be a bit on the expensive side compared to some other internet options available - plus the plate is not compatible if you ever decide to go with doubles.

http://www.kidspot.org/personal/scubaboard/bpwing.html

here's a lit of features in various wings and BPs if that helps in your decision making process.

Deep sea supply makes some reasonably priced wings and very nice plates, Hammerhead and FredT make some very reasonably priced plates with several options. Might be worth checking them all out - plus Tobin of DSS and FredT are both active members here on Scubaboard, so you can ask them questions directly (and they are very upfront in their answers)

With the standard Hammerhead ss plate and 2 piece sta you would still need 2-4lbs on your weight belt. And with an aluminum/plastic plate from any of them you would need 6-8lbs. (approximately, depending on how positive your current bc is)

you can also make a pvc sta that weights next to nothing and it's cheap

Aloha, Tim

 

[Mark Vlahos]

After lurking for a while on this forum, I'm interested enough in a BP/wing set up to ask a few specific questions. I'd appreciate any answers based on personal experience; as I know there's a lot of hype about diving BP/W.

1. I'm looking for a set up for use with a single tank only, usually AL80. Warm water use, usually I don't dive with anything more than a 3 mil. Anybody tried the jetharness plates? Is there an advantage to a flat plate for single tanks? It seems that there would be.

2. I typically dive with 8-10 lbs in the ocean, a few less in fresh water. I think my current BC, an old scubapro vest, is a couple of lbs positive. Could I be in a situation where I'm negative with no lead if a get a SS plate, and if so (I guess this is most likely in fresh water) is this going to be much of a problem? With my current set up, if I'm overweighted and have to put more air in my BC at depth, it definitely screws with my trim. But, in that case, I'm wearing an air-filled vest and lead around my hips.

3. I understand the trim advantages of a SS plate. But, let's say I were to get a more neutral plate, like an aluminum or even the jet harness ABS plate. Would there be any advantages to this over a soft harness, like a transpac, or for that matter, a simple back inflate like the zeagel scout? Would I lose the trim advantage of a SS plate by going with a lighter one? It's not that I mind a weight belt.

4. Anyone familiar with the jetharness wing? Looks alot like the dive-rite travel wing, only it's quite a bt cheaper.

Thanks!

I have a Jet Harness stainless steel plate for single tank diving. I have paired it with a Dive Rite Venture wing. I considered the wing from Jet Harness, but would rather have the lower pull dump on the left so I got the Venture wing.

I am pleased with the plate, it puts the tank very close to your back. I have found that I must place the tank with the valve and regulator located behind my neck, fortunately for me this is where the tank wants to be for proper trim. If I place the tank higher the regulator hits me in the back of the head. The tank is rock solid on the plate.

In fresh water with a steel Faber LP 95 I am properly weighted with no additional lead when wearing a 3/5/3mm wetsuit. True I have no ditchable weight, but I am properly weighted with 500 PSI in the tank at 5 feet in fresh water.

I am happy with the plate. I use a standard one piece webbing or "Hogarthian" harness. I greatly prefer this type of harness and strongly endorse it over the other harness systems out there.

Mark Vlahos

 

[halocline]

Thanks so far, still looking for some answers about the advantages of a neutral plate vs a soft harness, if there are any. Mark, (and others) how is doffing the Hogarthian harness, be honest!! It kind of looks like it would be hell. After backpacking for many years with all kinds of packs, I can't imagine getting the damn thing on and off w/out adjustable or quick release shoulder straps, at least on one side, unless it's worn WAY looser than I'm imagining.

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Thanks so far, still looking for some answers about the advantages of a neutral plate vs a soft harness, if there are any. Mark, (and others) how is doffing the Hogarthian harness, be honest!! It kind of looks like it would be hell. After backpacking for many years with all kinds of packs, I can't imagine getting the damn thing on and off w/out adjustable or quick release shoulder straps, at least on one side, unless it's worn WAY looser than I'm imagining.

The harness is a bit snug to get into and out of, but certainly not impossible. I put my computer etc... on my wrist after I am in the harness, that is the only change I make to putting the harness on. I also remove the stuff from my wrists before I take the rig off. To help get the harness off I hook the right shoulder D ring with my right thumb and pull the harness off, I do the same on my left side. This is really a minor concern for me as I have learned to do this quite easily. The minor trade off out of the water is worth the significant improvement in the water. The Hogarthian harness is the BEST style of harness I have come across for IN the water comfort. And remember, in the water may last half an hour or more (hopefully lots more) while out of the water is only a few minutes before and after the dive. With pretty much any plate you will need a crotch strap, this really helps to lock the harness in, much like a 5 point safety harness rather than a lap and shoulder belt in your car.

Neutral plates versus heavy plates is really a factor about total weight. If you always need 5 or 6 pounds when in the water then get the steel plate, if you do not need the 5 or 6 pounds that the plate provides then get the neutral version. It should really boil down to that consideration. If packed weight in luggage is the only factor to consider then the neutral plate will probably save you about 4 pounds in your luggage.

Lots of people seem to over think the plate, wing, and harness combinations. The system is really just as simple as it looks. It will take you a few dives to adjust the harness, but once this is done you just put it on and dive. You can save money compared to some BC's while it will cost you more than some other BC's, particularly bargain BC's. A BP/W is more like a sports car, sleek and fast. It does not have more than it needs. The large more traditional BC designs are more like a big american car, plenty of stuff and cushy, but no real road feel.

Best of luck,

Mark Vlahos

 

[kidspot]

Thanks so far, still looking for some answers about the advantages of a neutral plate vs a soft harness, if there are any. Mark, (and others) how is doffing the Hogarthian harness, be honest!! It kind of looks like it would be hell. After backpacking for many years with all kinds of packs, I can't imagine getting the damn thing on and off w/out adjustable or quick release shoulder straps, at least on one side, unless it's worn WAY looser than I'm imagining.

It all depends on how you don and doff - if you treat it like a sportscoat you will suffer many agonies trying to put it on and take it off. Instead you slide down into it and as Mark said you put your thumbs in the D-Rings and pull apart. Or if the weight doesn't bother you you can slide it over your head both directions - I find this easiest (though doubles would be a bear) but I'm a pretty big guy... but once it's on it's a great fit. My fear with quick releases isn't so much the issue of failure points as it is how they would dig into my side whereas the webbing just lays flat against my body - though I could be mistaken in that perception as I've never had QR on my rig.

Again as Mark pointed out - you spend 30 min (or 90...) in the water and 5 min. on land walking to the water. In the event of an emergency you can always cut the webbing and not flinch because it's cheap and easy to replace as oppossed to any of the custom harnesses out there.

btw - when I used to backpack with a heavy pack I would take it off like Mark does his harness - pull the shoulder straps apart, drop my arms and let it slide to the ground. I rarely used the quick releases on my packs (except the sternum release)

Aloha, Tim

 

[halocline]

On some harnesses it kind of looks like the waist and shoulder straps freely adjust together, is that right? What I mean is, could you release the waist buckle, and then pull on the shoulder straps, pulling the waist belt back through the plate to loosen the shoulder straps? Then pulling the waist strap tightens up the shoulders? I kind of doubt that it works that way; seems like it could be unstable in the water, but it would make it easier to get on/off. I guess it depends on the friction created when the webbing goes through the plate near the bottom.

 

[detroit diver]

On some harnesses it kind of looks like the waist and shoulder straps freely adjust together, is that right? What I mean is, could you release the waist buckle, and then pull on the shoulder straps, pulling the waist belt back through the plate to loosen the shoulder straps? Then pulling the waist strap tightens up the shoulders? I kind of doubt that it works that way; seems like it could be unstable in the water, but it would make it easier to get on/off. I guess it depends on the friction created when the webbing goes through the plate near the bottom.

In actual usage, I don't think you'd want the shoulder straps to loosen when releasing the waist buckle. If the buckle were to accidentally release (which happend to me a couple of weeks ago), your rig would become very unstable with the loose shoulder straps.

For the minor inconvenience on shore, the rig is an excellent one underwater when it really counts when used with a proper one piece harness (proper meaning not loose adjusting).