A drag issue : to bungee wings or not to bungee

[Troutmaster]

. But unless someone has tried one and has the personal experience to back it up, I think it's pretty immature to completely put it down.

This argument reminds me of a 'less lethal" force argument about TASAR units. Some trainers argue you don't know it is effective unless YOU have been shot with it. The standards have since changed but that was the thinking for a long time.

In addition to my TASAR I also carry a Sig .40 cal. I have never been shot with it, however I have seen it in action and I am willing to look at other evidence to determine that it is very very effective.

Being able to think a problem through and add that to real testing to make a choice is the halmark of a sound mind at work.

I have only dove non-bungied wings, but I have a bungied back inflate BC I have used (knighthawk). I like the non-bungied better and there are very real safety issues with the bungied wing.

Having said that, I will dive with people who have bungied wings and I really don't care if you choose to do so. I do not think it is the safest or best choice or I would dive one.

And if we are diving and your bungie hangs up on something, I am gonna cut it rather than untangle it so you get a chance to try an un-bungied wing. I am a team player like that

 

[OneRestlessNative]

An implication in your post that your idea of "fun" is the idea of "fun."

Maybe some people get a kick out (i.e. fun) of doing things a certain way or doing things well (in their minds).

I personally don't know anyone who both dives and doesn't have fun while diving. YMMV.

You are correct, my idea of fun is jumping off my local beach or boat and getting some lobster or a fish for dinner or simply cruising around watching the sea life. I would hardly find it fun diving in some deep, cold, dark, quarry, relentlessly obsessing about proper trim, DIR, and GUE techniques and matching my dive style and gear to everyone else's just to feel like part of a "group".

This is an observation and not a poke at you personally....

 

[Blackwood]

I would hardly find it fun diving in some deep, cold, dark, quarry

If you like diving enough, you'll go where the water is



Expanding on your "every aspect of life" bit... 12 or 13 years ago when I started playing guitar, it wasn't fun. It was terrible. Mashing the strings, mangling songs (or probably chords and scales at that point - songs were a figment of my imagination). Now that I've developed some core technique, it is fun. I can play what I want to play and it's great. I'll never be a Steve Vai or a John Petrucci, but I can look up to them without shame, and I can still work to improve. Diving is much the same. It wasn't nearly as much fun when I had to *think* about diving. What am I doing? Am I sinking? Rising? Lost? Too low on air? Now that I've developed some decent technique, I rarely have to think about diving. I just... dive. I'll never be a Sheck Exley or a JJ, but I can look up to them without any shame.

Mostly (in my experience), the people who obsess about gear configuration, body position, etc. aren't trying to feel like part of a group, they're trying to pass a class so that they can go diving.

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

This argument reminds me of a 'less lethal" force argument about TASAR units. Some trainers argue you don't know it is effective unless YOU have been shot with it. The standards have since changed but that was the thinking for a long time.

In addition to my TASAR I also carry a Sig .40 cal. I have never been shot with it, however I have seen it in action and I am willing to look at other evidence to determine that it is very very effective.

Being able to think a problem through and add that to real testing to make a choice is the halmark of a sound mind at work.

I have only dove non-bungied wings, but I have a bungied back inflate BC I have used (knighthawk). I like the non-bungied better and there are very real safety issues with the bungied wing.

Having said that, I will dive with people who have bungied wings and I really don't care if you choose to do so. I do not think it is the safest or best choice or I would dive one.

And if we are diving and your bungie hangs up on something, I am gonna cut it rather than untangle it so you get a chance to try an un-bungied wing. I am a team player like that

It's true up to a certain point for scenarios that are very black & white and easy to visualize/understand: if I see lab testing of a bulletproof vest, multiple videos of it working properly, and maybe some testing at a range, yeah I'll believe it without personally trying it out. That's very easy to understand: you have kevlar or whatever ultra tough material and it's been shown to stop a bullet, I believe it.

Or if someone is trying to go ice diving and they use a 3 mm wetsuit, obviously I would know instantly that's a stupid idea and you need a drysuit, proper undergarment, etc. Again very black and white, easy to visualize/understand.


However if you start getting into more subtle type situations theory and practical experience can vary greatly. Good example is the long hose for the primary reg. In the beginning, as I understand, there was fierce opposition and many arguments against them, including the entanglement risk people use for bungeed wings. However over time as people actually tried the long hose, they came to see that in practice, it worked out very well and most of the misconceptions were just that. Nowadays, the long hose is well accepted and adopted by many divers who after trying it, see the benefits it can bring. Perfect example of how for more subtle, non black & white situations, sometimes you really need to try it out before seeing if it works.

 

[LiteHedded]

why is everyone so concerned about who we choose to dive with?
just go diving with your bungeed wing. who gives a **** if we like it or not? we have our reasons. you know what they are.

bungeed wing divers obviously see a benefit to those bungees (I haven't seen any presented here though) go nuts. dive em. no one is telling you you can't dive the gear you choose. don't be so butthurt about it

 

[OneRestlessNative]

why is everyone so concerned about who we choose to dive with?
just go diving with your bungeed wing. who gives a **** if we like it or not? we have our reasons. you know what they are.

bungeed wing divers obviously see a benefit to those bungees (I haven't seen any presented here though) go nuts. dive em. no one is telling you you can't dive the gear you choose. don't be so butthurt about it

Its not so much about the variance in opinion as much the attitude presented from "some" of the "more experienced" or "type specific" divers towards others not at their level or similarity in gear choice. I know for sure if I was a new diver or in a new location seeking experience and knowledge and got some of the responses presented in threads and stories here, it would surely leave me jaded towards that "group" or "type" of divers. Having someone size up my skill by the gear I could "afford" or what "actually" worked for me is clearly disturbing. I realize these are basic human characteristic flaws displayed in every aspect of life. Its just sad that some are so dense, opinionated, or self perceived as better than anyone else, that fellow divers and humanity as a whole suffers. If anything, it makes self teaching, self reliance, solo diving that much more appealing...

 

[LiteHedded]

Its not so much about the variance in opinion as much the attitude presented from "some" of the "more experienced" or "type specific" divers towards others not at their level or similarity in gear choice. I know for sure if I was a new diver or in a new location seeking experience and knowledge and got some of the responses presented in threads and stories here, it would surely leave me jaded towards that "group" or "type" of divers. Having someone size up my skill by the gear I could "afford" or what "actually" worked for me is clearly disturbing. I realize these are basic human characteristic flaws displayed in every aspect of life. Its just sad that some are so dense, opinionated, or self perceived as better than anyone else, that fellow divers and humanity as a whole suffers. If anything, it makes self teaching, self reliance, solo diving that much more appealing...

if you're going to choose one of these things at least have a reason. stability?? really? that's a RIDICULOUS argument. don't let a perceived 'attitude' of some posters on the internet steer you towards a convoluted piece of gear just to spite them.

that's what it seems like is happening with a lot of people. to me at least.

at least one diver here (Dan) has seen what can happen with these wings in real life. thankfully he's seen several of these cases so I don't have to go try it myself.

things like this only matter on "real" dives anyway. to the people here doing 60' reef dives in a single aluminum tank, let's be honest, it doesn't matter. there are dives I would do with a buddy in one of these silly wings and there are dives I wouldn't.

 

[Randy43068]

I've never tried the bungeed wings. When bungeed, they look pretty stupid. I don't see the need...

 

[stairman]

I guess I look stupid when Im diving a single tank then, which is pretty much never because a snug bungee expels the air out much better than if it wasent on it. But as stated, were all individuals and have different methods for gettin er done.

 

[OneRestlessNative]

Actually I dive a bungied back inflate Zeagle. It has superb stability in any part of the water column I put it in, no matter how much or little air is in it. I do not have any problems orally inflating it, nor with premature OPV releases. It doesn't trap air and it certainly has never put me in a compromising position otherwise. I could honestly care less what others think or perceive of me. Obviously by the squabble and negativity in some of the threads and real life, people seeking/searching serious advice actually walk away more confused and disdained...

I do see the logic for proper gear choice and application for basic safety reasons for each "type" of diving.