A divers arrogance and ignorance

[kevink]

Working in Palau for a year I saw a lot of stupid things. I would not fault the guide for letting one of his group get away. Most groups are on their honor out there. The American shops tend not to cattle heard the groups the way the Japanese shops will. I am kind of impressed the guide could see him that far down, unless he was chasing him to the bottom. Rule #2 in diving, never chase anything to the bottom.

Palau's vertical reefs are immediately over the Yap Trench. I would always warn my guests about the temptation and dangers of going too deep. You can go right to the bottom if you want, however, it takes skill to be able to come back up.

I doubt I would have gone that deep to pull him back up. That was a combination of commitment and stupidity on the part of the guide. He deserves a commendation and then a smack over the head.

Where was this guy's buddy? Not only would this moron not be diving with me anymore, but someone should cut up his c-card and make him wear a life jacket whenever he hits the ocean again.

 

[BILLB]

Since I have had the pleasure of diving with Walter and taking note of his considerable diving skills and knowlege, I commend him on his stance.

This was not a resort course dive. DM's have too many responsibilities and liabilities for a normal group of divers.

Sometimes Darwin has to win. Basic Dive Rescue: Don't create two victims. The DM who made the rescue used his heart and skills to make this a happy ending. Next time he probably will not repeat this procedure.

 

[drbill]

natural selection is here for a reason. Sometimes it is better to let it take its course... and add another candidadte to the Darwin Awards list.

I'm not talking about a novice diver who gets in over their head... this one apparently was arrogant and had no respect for his own limits or the lives of others who were "responsible" for his safety. I would never have considered descending to such a depth to bring him back, but I'm glad Andre did... and succeeded.

I've run into a few cowboy divers like that in my years as well. I've left at least two descending below 150 ft and signaled the DM to bring them back while I joined the saner and safer divers with the other DM.

Dr. Bill

 

[cornfed]

BILLB once bubbled...

This was not a resort course dive. DM's have too many responsibilities and liabilities for a normal group of divers.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

 

[Big-t-2538]

BILLB once bubbled...

This was not a resort course dive. DM's have too many responsibilities and liabilities for a normal group of divers.

This statement makes Zero sense????

 

[Phish-phood]

I may have interpreted wrong but I think what is meant is that if it isn't a course then all divers are qualified and as long as the DM's have followed the necessary criteria, checked logbooks and certs, discussed the dive plan and ensured that everyone understood maximum depths, safety procedures etc on the surface then they shouldn't be held responsible for a qualified diver who decides to do things his own way.

We have become too happy and quick to blame others for our mistakes and failings. If a DM takes a group of divers in and is basically there as a guide/dive leader they shouldn't have to worry that if someone breaks the rules and causes an accident that they are going to get out and be sued by grieving spouses, children whatever

In this case provided all qualifications were checked and all issues regarding the dive and dive plan were covered on the surface then the DM in all honesty cannot be held responsible for the fact that a qualified diver deviates from the plan. In this incidence in fact I think the diver himself should be fined for not only putting himself at risk but also the whole group that he was diving with.

 

[agstreet]

cornfed once bubbled...


I'm not sure I understand your point.

I believe his point is that the DMs have a larger responsibility to ensure the safety of the overall group than they do to an individual who is recklessly trying to kill himself. This is compared to the PADI resort courses where the DM is supposed to be giving individual attention to each diver, managing their buoyancy for them (now, how PADI can expect one DM to safely manage the actions of four divers who might be intent on hurting themselves is another topic entirely).

 

[BILLB]

My grammatical lingo lapses plows into another roadblock!

A Resort Course is a temporary certification offered by resorts (and others that allow a diver to use SCUBA with a DM or Instructor. This certification is no longer valid once the diver leave that resort. There are variations on this but that is the principle.

My point? These divers were certified OW or higher SCUBA divers. The fact that a DM or two were present did not relieve any of them from being responsible for their own actions. In the case of resort course divers, the DM/Instructor is responsible for all aspects of safety, ETC. (which makes this in MHO a nerve wracking and potentally dangerous situation for both the diver and the DM's).

 

[ElectricZombie]

I would not have gone after the guy. 250ft on a single tank is crazy. It's really not worth the risk or hassle. If they guy is foolish enough to get himself into such a situation, it is not my responsibility to help him regardless of if I am DMing or not.

 

[TCDiver1]

mars2u once bubbled...

You can check out recent pics on my web site...btw, you should consider going back...fantastic crew!!!

I did, it was nice seeing the old bucket again. I especially liked your crossing story, we had a vomit run when we crossed also. I was about the only one who didn't heave but i did get to feeling queasy, something that usually isn't a problem for me. It was a rough one to be sure.
I went back and checked my log book and we were there Jan-Feb of 2002 .... i guess i was having a senior moment when i said 2001. Anyway, Elaine was the boat manager, DM's were Matt, Dan and Don. The week after we were there, they ran the blue aground .... we figured heads would roll after that.

Back on topic, i totally understand and for the most part agree with what Mike, Walter and others are saying. No diver should have an expectation of care that is unreasonable. Dropping to 251' on a recreational profile and expecting to be cared for is not reasonable by any measure i'm aware of.

Expecting to be cared for within or near the limits of the profile planned is a completely reasonable expectation for any diver to have of a Dm or instructor they are paying to lead a dive or teach them a course. Any Dm or instructor that doesn't feel this way should find a different line of work IMO.