A dispute at Glenn's Aquarius

[TishaDee]

Nice dodge on the whole "don't know anything about vis."

But to answer your dodge:

Nitrox is free to students.
Nitrox is $10 per tank no matter what size (AL80, LP95, Double 100s).
Nitrox is $5 per tank (again, regardless of size) if you're a dive club member ($40 a year).

That means, nitrox from the shop I frequent is 1/4-1/2 the cost of anywhere else I get fills.


That's awesome your shop can do a hydro in house. I have never heard of it in a small shop, since I can send my tanks out through my small shop and get them tumbled and hydro'd for $15 a tank. I'd have to double check, but I think a vis is $5.

Oh, and legally, you can't send a customer's tank off for hydro if it fails vis unless they already signed it over...because if it gets condemned because you sent it without their permission...guess who is buying them a new tank?


But to get back to my point: what are your qualifications to be passing out vis/hydro information on the internet?

I think everyone has had enough of the two of us on this issue. So this will be my last post on the matter, so feel free to get your cheap shots in.

Anyway, our EANx fills are $9.00 per tank up to 36% O2 and $13.00 for anything up 50% O2. Any O2 % greater then 50% is priced by the owners depending on the tank size.

Since I work at the shop I was discussing the VIS and Hydro procedures and pricing for, I feel that I am more then qualified to answer those questions as they pertain to the LDS I work at. After all I do get paid to answer those very same questions for our customers.
Nuff said-

Now have a nice day! pd:

 

[wedivebc]

Yeah, but it seems pretty clear from wedivebc's question that he didn't read the relevant post in the thread, not that he disbelieves the assertion of qualification. For purposes of the question, it is sufficiently proven. Now if he wants to dispute the premise, that's another can of worms.

Yes I was more concerned about the legal advice he was dispensing. I saw no reference to a law degree. I expect he knows how to inspect tanks.

 

[redrover]

How relevant was the prior set of posts to Glenn's Aquarius?

The hissy fits I could understand, some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I can’t figure out the bunny and pancake relating to any of it tho. Just curious.

…oh! Like an icon for lighten up people, this is nonsence?

 

[Gombessa]

…oh! Like an icon for lighten up people, this is nonsence?

I think you got it.

 

[rainman_02]

I read that as you are saying Nitrox fills are $20-40.

I get my HP tanks filled from the banks (32) at Aquarius Del Monte for $10. I think LP
tanks are a little less ($8?).

AWS charges $10 for a Nitrox fill from the banks (32) by the each, $8.50 if you get a
Nitrox fill card.

Chuck,

I (a dive club member, any certified diver can join) pay $5 a fill, whether I'm filling my AL80 or my Double 100s. At Aquarius Del Monte, I pay $10 a fill for my AL80 and $20 a fill for my Double 100s.

$5 / $10 = 1/2
$5 / $20 = 1/4

I wish AWS was closer to me / my driving route to go to Monterey, but it is not and I do not often drop in there. I am not familiar with their prices.


-----------------------------

wedivebc,

You are correct, I am not a lawyer. But I play one on TV. No, seriously, it's a valid point that I threw out some legal mumbo-jumbo when I'm not a trained lawyer. However, in my defense, it would be stupid to be involved in things like gas blending and visual tank inspections without understanding the legal ramifications. But I shall attempt to not make any more legal commentary on the board.

-----------------------------

TishaDee,

Your qualifications to talk about vis procedures are about as good as my lawyer qualifications. The only difference is I am man enough to admit that I don't know the lawyer stuff first-hand, said "oops, my bad" and will press on...while you continue to insist that you are a vis expert because vis inspections are done at your shop [not by you].

 

[wgallaway]

I've had nothing but good experiences with Glens

 

[redacted]

I'm not a certified Visual Inspector, so I can't answer you with all the exact technical details of it and perhaps some folks on here can chip in their two cents. But from what I gather, it's to ensure that the tank which is visibly in very bad shape, is still structurally sound enough to pass a Hydro before the major overhaul needed to pass the visual is done, this saves the shop time and the customer money in the long run. No one wants to invest a lot of money in a tank that won't pass the next Hydro.

I'm not sure if this is a requirement of the VIP tank certification process or just how our shop does things. But suppose you failed the VIP and the tank was going to require 8 to 10 or more hours of tumbling (typically tanks get 1-3 hours from what I've seen in our shop) and 8-10 hours would cost substantially more then a 1-3 hour tumble and let's say it was an O2 clean tank which would require another step in the process and a few more bucks on top of that. Now you've got a customer who's out a decent wad of cash and a tank that has questionble integrity released back into service with that inspector/shops name tied to it all.

That puts both the customer and the shop in a compromising and risky position and when it comes to life supporting devices it's always better to play it safe then to end up sorry.

So if it looks to be in bad enough shape during the visual we move it right into Hydro to make sure it's a good tank before we move on with the overhaul. Again I don't know if that's the industry standard, or just how we do things. But it makes sense to me.

My grandmother has a saying for this. Better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are dumb, rather then open it and prove them right.

You should have listened to your grandmother.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

You should have listened to your grandmother.

Excuse me, but I don't think TishaDee has said much wrong here. She's talked about the
procedures at the shop she works in and explained the logic. If it's the shop I suspect
it is (Pacific Coast SCUBA in Morgan Hill, http://www.pcscuba.com/), I've used them
a few times, including their in-house hydro facility (it's real, I've seen it), and they are
good people (also run the Beach Hopper).

There's been a lot of "she's wrong", but not a lot of factual counter example.

 

[Gombessa]

I'm not certified for viz, nor have I been appointed grand dragon by the hydro council, but I'm not entirely sure how I would take it if I brought my tank in for a viz and they came back saying "congrats, your tank is condemned." I mean, thanks for:

1. Saving my life?
2. Taking a bad/dangerous tank out of service.
3. Robbing me of a plus rating?
4. Robbing me of maybe 4.5 years of useful service?

The first and the last seem equally remote, but I think it should be my call as a customer as to whether any interim hydro should be done. As a shop, if you don't want to overhaul it with a hydro, don't do it. Just don't "move it right into hydro."

Also, is a hydro generally required after tumbling? If so, the prospect of having three hydros done in the span of a month doesn't sound like fun. If it fails the post-overhaul hydro, whose to say what caused that failure? To me, it sounds much more clean cut to simply perform the required service.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

I'm not certified for viz, nor have I been appointed grand dragon by the hydro council, but I'm not entirely sure how I would take it if I brought my tank in for a viz and they came back saying "congrats, your tank is condemned." I mean, thanks for:

1. Saving my life?
2. Taking a bad/dangerous tank out of service.
3. Robbing me of a plus rating?
4. Robbing me of maybe 4.5 years of useful service?

The first and the last seem equally remote, but I think it should be my call as a customer as to whether any interim hydro should be done. As a shop, if you don't want to overhaul it with a hydro, don't do it. Just don't "move it right into hydro."

Also, is a hydro generally required after tumbling? If so, the prospect of having three hydros done in the span of a month doesn't sound like fun. If it fails the post-overhaul hydro, whose to say what caused that failure? To me, it sounds much more clean cut to simply perform the required service.

If it fails a hydro, it isn't safe, it should be taken out of service, period, end of
discussion.

I do agree that the customer should be told that passing a hydro is required to
continue the service process before the tank is sent to hydro.

If it fails the + rating test, you aren't robbed. It wasn't safe for the + rating. And
if the shop sent it to a hydro facility that can't do the + rating, you have a legit beef
with the shop. + ratings CAN be recovered by passing, and the shop should send it
to a hydrofacility that CAN do the plus rating. (Personal opinion: If I ran I a dive shop,
I would NOT use a hydro facility that can't do a + rating.)