A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[Rollin Bonz]

Many negative views, in my opinion/experience, result from seeing someone who shouts from the rooftops "I have completed my 'Master Scuba Diver' training!"... but you see the guy's utter lack of skills on display weekly at the quarry. Same can be said of many "Dive Masters".

Are there MSDs and DMs out there who ARE highly skilled? Sure.

Do I personally know MSDs and DMs that are horrible divers? Yes, and they are the ones most proud of their certification.

 

[tursiops]

Many negative views, in my opinion/experience, result from seeing someone who shouts from the rooftops "I have completed my 'Master Scuba Diver' training!"... but you see the guy's utter lack of skills on display weekly at the quarry. Same can be said of many "Dive Masters".

Are there MSDs and DMs out there who ARE highly skilled? Sure.

Do I personally know MSDs and DMs that are horrible divers? Yes, and they are the ones most proud of their certification.

I think we would all agree that someone who boasts about ANY credential and then is unable to display the associated competence deserves a negative mention.

True of tech divers and cave divers, too, not just MSD and DM.

 

[alexdives]

So what I am hearing is MSD is additional training and for a rec diver more training is good.
People who want to go around shouting "I'M A MASTER DIVER" with 50 dives and think that makes them better than someone with 500 dives are fooling themselves and nobody else.
Seems to me the certification is misnamed and that's really the core of the issue.
How about
AOW becomes Open Water 2
and MSD becomes AOW
Not that PADI would consider it but wouldn't it make so much more sense?

 

[Rollin Bonz]

I think we would all agree that someone who boasts about ANY credential and then is unable to display the associated competence deserves a negative mention.

True of tech divers and cave divers, too, not just MSD and DM.

True. I guess it's a combination of the boasting of what is essentially a participation trophy (as others point out) along with the lack of skills that does it.

If a tech or cave diver is braggadocios but appears to lack the skills, my criticism is probably going to be of their course/instructor. The expectation is they should be skilled. Tech or cave certs shouldn't be "bought", but earned.

You can meet all the requirements of MSD, but you only get the MSD cert if you pay for it. So, truly, you can have 2 divers that have completed all the same individual certifications, but because one of them paid extra, he/she is a MSD (with all the rights and privileges hereby conferred/s). MSD is just... Bought.

Just having ONE additional requirement for becoming a MSD other than writing a check (maybe a comprehensive written exam?), It would add substance and gravitas to the title.

PS: I know, all certs should be earned, but my tech and rebreather courses always started with a statement similar to "No more "getting" a certification, at this level, you've got to earn it. If you don't demonstrate the skills required to keep yourself and your teammates alive and safe, you will not be passing this class and you will not earn this certification ".

 

[scubadada]

Fish ID can be extremely difficult and rewarding, and often leads to regular fish surveying (species and abundance) for REEF.org and having your survey data including in the global survey database that is now up to over a quarter-million surveys over almost three decades. Although some clearly feel that the only specialties worthwhile are those that improve your personal diving, others prefer to learn about and contribute to the ocean's health and understanding.

And that can be done informally without the need of paying an instructor or agency. Like posting online your photos, or asking if you fish ID is correct.

I'm with @tursiops on this one. I have always been interested in identifying the fish I was seeing while diving, I learned a lot by using identification books, the Humann/Deloach series as an example.

Back in 2008, I had about 340 dives, my wife and I took a half day, non-certification course in Bonaire with Jerry Ligon called Dive with the Naturalist. It was a combination of fish identification and behavior. We spent about 3 hours in the classroom listening to Jerry and watching his beautiful slides. We then went out on Bari Reef and did an hour plus dive, applying what we learned in the classroom. It was a real eye-opening experience that expanded my abilities several fold. I have used principles learned that day ever since.

In 2013, I had the opportunity to take the Reef Fish ID course at Jupiter Dive Center, FL, led by Paul Humann. I had about 750 dives at the time. Again, there was several hours in the classroom followed by two boat dives out of Jupiter. I had intended on becoming a Reef surveyor but found the recording not my style. On the other hand, I added considerable new knowledge to my armamentarium.

Both of these educational experiences added considerably to my fish identification skills and enjoyment to my diving

 

[Leatherboot69]

A lot of valid arguments here, some of which I agree with and some of which I don’t.

On not having to pay money for courses and learning from mentors - well, I actually quite like formal courses, and speciality courses aren’t that much more expensive than kit hire and guided dives until I’ve bought my own kit. Also, I don’t really know anyone in diving yet beyond other beginners and intermediates, and I don’t want/don’t have time to join a club so I can’t learn from mentors. The commercial option has been a perfectly viable way to gain the skills.

On fundies and similar courses - I think there are a range of reasons and motivations to become a diver but not everybody wants to take it that seriously and to become an excellent diver. I’ll put it out there - I don’t want to be an excellent diver. I don’t want to do tec, and I probably won’t do DM (although I like the idea of leading groups, as I do on land) I want to be the best diver I can be whilst having fun and being a safe buddy to my partner (OW and not very confident).

Sure, I get that it’s just a badge and I’m not blind to that view-but when I think back over the past months it definitely has felt like a challenge; it’s not just about sending the form off and paying fifty bucks; it’s also been about the dozen or so weekends of training and the evenings spent doing e-learning and then the rest of the dives. MSD has provided a really helpful framework around which to structure that initial and subsequent diver training and to incentivise me to continue-it feels like the end of the beginning. Just diving after OW wouldn’t have been as much fun, to be honest.

However, I would agree with whoever it was who said some sort of final test would add some credibility to it. And yes, the marketing can be a bit cringy.

 

[ontdiver]

The bottom line, IMHO, is that if you are happy taking courses to achieve your particular diving "goal" then that is just great. But if you are a bad diver and particularly if you are placing others at risk, then you should expect to be called out loud...and often.

 

[inquis]

What did MSD yield over simply taking those 9 classes?

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

In my opinion, certifications are basically worthless unless they are required as the "ticket" to open doors that others control.......like air fills, custom gas mixes, equipment purchases, dive ops to more advance sites and conditions, etc.

Being a Master Scuba Diver.....or the equivalent of one...... is completely free and does not require any agency involvement. If you are a Master Scuba Diver then just be one and skip the card and save the $50 to get the plastic. Just prove to yourself and others you dive with that you are qualified which is far more important than certified.

Last but not least......when diving with others, trips, LOB's, etc.....for liability reasons, its best to just leave any plastic beyond AOW in your pocket anyway...... When I travel, all I bring is my AOW and Nitrox cards and otherwise STFU about any other certs....

 

[tursiops]

What did MSD yield over simply taking those 9 classes?

Nothing. It is a recognition award that says you did all those classes and did all those dives. PADI-bashers love to call it a participation trophy...but it is not. A participation award does not say you actually did anything, you were just there, you participated. A recognition award says you actually did some stuff and you ought to be recognized for it. Semantics? Maybe, but words and connotations mean something.

Last but not least......when diving with others, trips, LOB's, etc.....for liability reasons, its best to just leave any plastic beyond AOW in your pocket anyway

Do you have any evidence for this liability concern?