A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[pauldw]

I wish my grandkids were visiting. I'd have some diapers then, that I could use in this thread.

 

[Leatherboot69]

This was interesting: watersports are becoming more popular but scuba is becoming less popular.
The article argues that a ‘higher quality’ ‘more consistent’ and ‘more convenient’ experience is needed (Note ‘higher quality’ does not necessarily mean ‘higher training standards’). I certainly find scuba a ‘hard to access’ activity, and having tried three LDS’ I’ve found three very different experiences (high volume, competing on price vs high price, competing on quality)

 

[boulderjohn]

This was interesting: watersports are becoming more popular but scuba is becoming less popular.
The article argues that a ‘higher quality’ ‘more consistent’ and ‘more convenient’ experience is needed (Note ‘higher quality’ does not necessarily mean ‘higher training standards’). I certainly find scuba a ‘hard to access’ activity, and having tried three LDS’ I’ve found three very different experiences (high volume, competing on price vs high price, competing on quality)

I wrote about the quality of the experience a couple years ago. There is no question that the coral in the places that I first dived and where I got my love of scuba has been severely degraded since those days. When I revisited the Great Barrier Reef a few years ago, I was shocked by the change, and the dive leader on our liveaboard said he thought that at the pace it was degrading, no one would be diving it in 20 years. When I first started diving, I was amazed at the fish surrounding me on the dives. Now I barely see any. If I were to start diving today, I could not possibly have the sense of beauty and wonder I had then.

 

[azstinger11]

I wrote about the quality of the experience a couple years ago. There is no question that the coral in the places that I first dived and where I got my love of scuba has been severely degraded since those days. When I revisited the Great Barrier Reef a few years ago, I was shocked by the change, and the dive leader on our liveaboard said he thought that at the pace it was degrading, no one would be diving it in 20 years. When I first started diving, I was amazed at the fish surrounding me on the dives. Now I barely see any. If I were to start diving today, I could not possibly have the sense of beauty and wonder I had then.

While I'm sure i'll see the same trend as time goes on. As someone who started diving later, i'm not sure that maybe i'm fortunate that my expectations were just set lower. I'm means its tragic and terrible and I wish I could have seen the reefs at full health and beauty but born like 20 years too late for that. Just means my expectations are lower.

I also wonder about the future of oceanic wreck diving. Feels like there are fewer and fewer new wrecks (which is good) occurring (or occurring in divable depths), and the ocean is really taking its toll on the WW2 and similar vintage wrecks.

 

[tursiops]

I suspect a part of the feeling that "things aren't what they used to be" is that one gets used to all the fish and perhaps a bit jaded. It is hard to go back to that feeling of amazement you had 20-30-40 years ago. Yes, the reefs and fish populations are changing, but so are we.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I'm a diver who started, "way back" (1959). I've not done any travel diving, and simply dive where I'm at in the Pacific Northwest. Mostly I dive my local rivers, and am interested in the biology of these waters. I will continue to dive locally until I cannot dive anymore (at least another 10 years). I think part of the problem with diving is the emphasis on dive travel, as that means someone has to expend a lot of effort and dollars to get away from where they are at, and they don't know what's locally available. I put that money into underwater photography, and think that to interest new divers, we need to show what they are missing that is easily accessible.

The photos below represent two dives in the Tualatin River and the Clackamas River, visibility only about 3-4 feet and 10-12 feet, respectively; but lots of life to see, a crawdad, a freshwater mussel and a freshwater sculpin. Oregon has some wonderful lake, river and estuary diving, as well as diving in the Pacific Ocean off the coast (which sometimes can be wonderful, and sometimes is very difficult/hazardous).

SeaRat

 

[Baker_Dive]

Hi everybody

I recently got (back) into scuba and I love it! I’m a few weeks away from completing PADI Master Scuba Diver. Having followed the forums for a few months and seen a general trend of similar (negative) views towards this rating, I thought I would present an alternative viewpoint to encourage others. I want to focus on the content of MSD rather than the title, as whilst I see how the MSD title is contentious, it is also highly subjective. I don’t personally have a problem with it.

By the time I complete MSD, I will have completed 21 training dives across nine courses (OW, AOW, EFR, RD, Nav, Deep, Wreck, Dry Suit and Nitrox) plus around five days of theory e-learning, so almost a month of full time training. I will have a further 29 recreational dives in both tropical and cold water, sea and lakes. Whilst I don’t feel I am ‘expert’, I do feel safe, competent and that I have mastered the basic skills in a range of conditions. Perhaps it’s not the usual approach but I have viewed it as a single training pipeline, albeit one that has been modularised to make it more accessible.

I have also enjoyed the flexibility, being able to tailor my specialties to my interests and local needs. I know another criticism is that you can count several non-dive specialties; but do many people actually do that? Or do most people actually take a combination of dive and non-dive training to suit their needs? Either way, as a minimum they still need RD and fifty dives.

The speciality courses on their own haven’t made me an expert, or even competent, in the skills taught. But I don’t think they aim to. You learn skills on the courses, but it’s through applying them on recreational dives outside of training that I’ve practiced them and built my experience.

Another one of the criticisms of MSD seems to be based on a comparison with NAUI MSD, but I don’t see how one is better or worse than the other. NAUI MSD requires 19 training dives (fewer than I have done with PADI) and a dive theory package-the professional dive theory course for PADI can be done separately (and optionally) or as part of the DM course. Those who want it can do it; but having looked into it, I don’t see how professional level dive theory is relevant for amateur recreational diving of this type, even for MSD.

The received wisdom on SB is to do courses such as NAUI MSD and GUE Fundies. If I’d followed the advice I’d read on SB I would never have considered PADI MSD as it feels like the only route advocated is to push to be a highly trained amateur diving specialist. I’d like to advocate an alternative for other newcomers to diving - PADI MSD has been challenging enough to be rewarding, but modular and flexible enough to be relevant and accessible. It has given me a good foundation to enjoy a new hobby, receive some good training, learn new skills - and have a lot of fun. Let’s not lose sight of that!

Don’t you need 50 dives for the certification?

I like the tone of your post admiring you are not an expert but feel competent. You have a lot of theory and that’s GOOD, but underwater hours in different environments is where the experience is learned. Keep diving and don’t buy the cards to become an “expert” they mean nothing. Logged dives is where you get experience.

I get it, and I bought and paid for a bunch of certs, AOW, Rescue and equipment specialist. I did this initially when I had no one to dove with and only did these classes to dive. After enough classes I met another scuba nutjob who dives every weekend and we started diving together. We will meet at the same place as our shop does it’s training and sometimes we tag along with the classes in the back or do our own thing.

What many fail to realize is, (atleast at my shop) you don’t need to pay for the class to dive in the group. So I will dive with the owner when he takes his students out for deep or wreck. As long as you are competent and don’t need attention the shop shouldn’t mind as you should be an extra set of eyes for the instructor. Sometimes we will buddy up with the class if they have an odd number.

My best advice, stop paying for BS classes and giving money to PADI, and just find a buddy to dive with.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I suspect a part of the feeling that "things aren't what they used to be" is that one gets used to all the fish and perhaps a bit jaded. It is hard to go back to that feeling of amazement you had 20-30-40 years ago. Yes, the reefs and fish populations are changing, but so are we.

Just back from 3 weeks of diving in Bali. On some dives we had divers who were no so good at spotting things. One couple had a go pro and I said if we happen to be close enough on the dive and you see my video lights turn on there might be something worthwhile to see. Anyway even when I pointed out this tiny Candy Crab they could not see it as they did not know what they were looking at.

After the dive I showed them an image on my TG6. They are like wow how do you even spot things so small like this. My reply was years of diving, being patient, learning about Fish ID and taking time not to rush past things on a dive. I can still get excited when I spot the smallest of creatures on dives. People are surprised I am still vacation diving after all these years. Some of the divers will ask what certification I have and I reply just rescue. I tell them cards are useless bling underwater but useful for getting on dive boats lol. When they ask did I do a photography course I reply yes, I did my own and I just went on dives and read online tips about my camera and settings, failed in the first days of my camera usage until I sorted my own settings.

Never felt the need to take a specialty course. One diver noticed how I keep my two hands on my tray handles and keep my hands still while my arms and body move around in the water. How do I do that they ask? My reply go watch humming birds. Where's my pointy stick they ask? Don't use one I reply. You can learn peak buoyancy from wanting to be still when taking video and photos.

Just dive with more experienced divers and learn from them.

 

[Baker_Dive]

Just back from 3 weeks of diving in Bali. On some dives we had divers who were no so good at spotting things. One couple had a go pro and I said if we happen to be close enough on the dive and you see my video lights turn on there might be something worthwhile to see. Anyway even when I pointed out this tiny Candy Crab they could not see it as they did not know what they were looking at.

After the dive I showed them an image on my TG6. They are like wow how do you even spot things so small like this. My reply was years of diving, being patient, learning about Fish ID and taking time not to rush past things on a dive. I can still get excited when I spot the smallest of creatures on dives. People are surprised I am still vacation diving after all these years.


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New/nervous divers focus is a pin head. They see nothing and are only worried about looking at depth and air. Takes people time to get comfy underwater and actually be aware of their surroundings.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Just back from 3 weeks of diving in Bali. On some dives we had divers who were no so good at spotting things. One couple had a go pro and I said if we happen to be close enough on the dive and you see my video lights turn on there might be something worthwhile to see. Anyway even when I pointed out this tiny Candy Crab they could not see it as they did not know what they were looking at.

After the dive I showed them an image on my TG6. They are like wow how do you even spot things so small like this. My reply was years of diving, being patient, learning about Fish ID and taking time not to rush past things on a dive. I can still get excited when I spot the smallest of creatures on dives. People are surprised I am still vacation diving after all these years. Some of the divers will ask what certification I have and I reply just rescue. I tell them cards are useless bling underwater but useful for getting on dive boats lol. When they ask did I do a photography course I reply yes, I did my own and I just went on dives and read online tips about my camera and settings, failed in the first days of my camera usage until I sorted my own settings.

Never felt the need to take a specialty course. One diver noticed how I keep my two hands on my tray handles and keep my hands still while my arms and body move around in the water. How do I do that they ask? My reply go watch humming birds. Where's my pointy stick they ask? Don't use one I reply. You can learn peak buoyancy from wanting to be still when taking video and photos.

Just dive with more experienced divers and learn from them.


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