A cry for help. Destruction of cozumel starting in 2013

[Mike]

I see no problems in regard to electricity being generated on Cozumel goes to the main land and Cozumel gets power from the mainland. You have to be a little more sophisticated in your thinking. The energy grid isn't so simple where you just can magically make it logical after millions have already been spent on infastructure that was put in place to electrify Cozumel. Energy doesn't need to be local and logical. Also keep in mind that wind power is not a dependable power source, it wouldn't be smart for Cozumel to rely on only wind power, for instance during a big enough storm the turbines would need to be locked to avoid damage and you'd essentially be under a black out.

I can understand the environmental arguments, but not the beliefs that if you put a turbine on Cozumel it should power Cozumel.

 

[alexunderpressure]

Hmmmm...the Sierra club has moved to Mex!!

Sorry, I'm not buying this bunk. We, here in SoCal have thousands of windmills, and as far as I know there are absolutely no issues similar to the ones listed above. Noise pollution??? From a windmill?? :confused6:

South California right?

My friend, you are on solid ground in a contitnet.

Noise polution is the lesser of our problem.

Cozumel is a self contained ecosystem, the only water it has is from rain, and it goes to an interconected underground system under the island, I myself have a well, and the water is just 27 feet under the ground, those mills will require fundations that will penetrate the fersh water of Cozumel nd disturb it, as we have salt water under the fresh one. like a thermocline.

We have a treasure of migrating birds, nesting turtles and a very rich fauna endemic to the island that may be at risk.

I say this from the heart: whatever sudies or trying to rationalize this thing, Cozumel should be and remain pristine, those mills dont make sense, this paradise shouldn´t be risked, we have very few places like Cozumel... let´s not run out of them.

---------- Post Merged at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:33 PM ----------

English is only my second language? what is a nutter exactly?

Anyway, I think you have to live here to realize things like how the gvmnt would sell anything for money, Cozumel is very complex, see what mstevens says, she lives here, and knows what we have lost. we lost a big part of paradise reef, the part of it that could be shore dived is gone because of the new marina, there is no access, the cruise dont help, and it is there for all to see, I do worry because I´ve come to realize that the gvmnt here will sell the island for money if we don´t stand up. They rely on the fact that a very ample part of the Cozumel population is humble ppl that wont put a fight.

---------- Post Merged at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:33 PM ----------

English is only my second language? what is a nutter exactly?

Anyway, I think you have to live here to realize things like how the gvmnt would sell anything for money, Cozumel is very complex, see what mstevens says, she lives here, and knows what we have lost. we lost a big part of paradise reef, the part of it that could be shore dived is gone because of the new marina, there is no access, the cruise dont help, and it is there for all to see, I do worry because I´ve come to realize that the gvmnt here will sell the island for money if we don´t stand up. They rely on the fact that a very ample part of the Cozumel population is humble ppl that wont put a fight.

 

[driftwood]

Alex,

I don't know where to start. I guess the best place is where you started.

First Coz is not a self contained ecosystem. Only a tiny percentage of what you consume is produced on Coz. The biggest part of that is water. BTW, 114 foundations for wind turbines will not make a fart in a tornado compared to your and other people's wells contaminating the fresh water with salt water.

Second, when Ron was on the island with Jacques Cousteau (see my first post on this thread), I can promise you it was a hell of a lot more "pristine" than when your well was drilled.

You are really starting to sound like a NIMBY whiner.

 

[alexunderpressure]

what is a NIMBY whiner?

ok guys, let´s leave it like that, I wanted to talk to some empathetic ppl, about what I consider a problem, I guess some times you want to vent, communicate to ppl with a common interest, but I really dont know what a"nutter" , or NIMBY whiner. I guess it´s not what I want to be.

regards, Alex

 

[Tigerman]

I suspect that if you look at the real costs of wind energy and issues with integrating that energy into the power grid that this energy source is less than what is is touted. Not unlike solar.

Ask the danish, the germans or the dutch. They have all used windmills extensively for decades..

Its not like windmills are groundbreaking new technology with unknown cost and efficiency.
It IS however dependant on the conditions where they are set up

 

[Laura Cozumeleno]

My biggest problem with the project is how backwards the system is. I mean, as you alluded to why generate conventional electricity to Cozumel from the mainland and then have Cozumel send back wind energy to the mainland? I doubt the wind energy project would fail, but I just don't see how it benefits Cozumel outside of potential jobs. I think the people on the island should allow the project, but they should demand that they get to keep the energy and any residual wind energy then could be sold back to the mainland. This would allow the island to be self sufficient from an energy standpoint and they could also reduce energy costs to their residents.

Cozumel does not need any more energy. Since 2001 "Wartzila" Energía y Agua Pura de Cozumel a local energy plant is working producing 30% of it´s capacity to "sell" energy to most big hotels and Cozumel airport. By law, no one can produce energy by it self in Mexico but only thru CFE (Comision Federal de Electricidad) owned by the government. If this plant worked to it´s 100% capacity, it would be able to provide power to the entire island and to sell some to Riviera Maya too.

The company that will build this wind mill is the one to do the business. They will SELL the energy to the government thru CFE. The wind mill is not owned by Cozumel people to benefit Cozumel people.
Mexico Power Group is owned by Cannon Power Group based in California. They have issued a document that is required to get the building permits. This document is called "MIA" Manifiesto de Impacto Ambiental and it is right now to be approved or rejected in the correspondent federal office in Mexico City. One of the requirements for this document to be approved is that the residents read it and accept it. I have it, have read it and discussed with my chamber of commerce fellow members among with ingenieers, biologists, ecologists, etc. and we all have agreed this will be the worst ecocide ever to the Island.
It is NOT the wind mill it self or the clean energy needed that is the bad part... it is what it brings to the side.
Among OTHER reasons, just to mention one or two, the mill will be 7 (SEVEN) years under construction. There is where the destruction will happen. The JOBS for Cozumel people are described in the MIA document as per only 300 local people needed to work mainly "cutting off" the jungle by hand and/or operating "some" machines (they do not describe exactly which "machines".
The MIA has a lot of inaccurate statements which we people, residents have objected to the authorities. Some of this inaccurate data are terrible mistakes as per example in one page they say there will be 114 towers and in other page they say there will be 115, when they add up their four stages.
The "Eolic Park" how they call it will be built in four stages among 7 years. In the MIA they ACCEPT devastation of the whole 6,132 hectares. Yes... they are EXACTLY 6,132 HEC ( 15,152.501 acre, I googled it)

They have recognized that 3 endemic species are in danger and me be EXTINCT after the construction ends, among with the reduction of population of other species.

At first, in 2011, when President Calderón announced this project we, the residents, thought it was a great idea. All we knew was about green energy, clean energy, best for the world, best for Cozumel, etc. etc. Now that we know EXACTLY the facts of the whole plan, based mainly in a business $$$ really, cheap land (lended not rented or sold by the government) we are already devastated.
For me is pretty clear... Cozumel DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE ENERGY than the one "Wartzila" can produce and it is not producing because CFE does not want to. The energy produced by this project IS NOT FOR COZUMEL PEOPLE. Then why not build it in mainland? There´s plenty of space (there´s 9 other places in the state suitable for this project, but the land is owned by particulars and I guess it will be expensive). Sorry, I don't see ANY benefit at all. Cozumel has a compromise with the world to preserve this 3 or a lot more species and the environment used by migratory birds, specially if this energy project is more suitable somewhere else.

 

[herman]

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard, a term for people who protest the building of any thing- building, factory, park- anything- who use any number of reasons for not wanting it but in the end the real reason is they simply don't want it near them.

You wanted empathetic people who would join your cause without thinking but what you have gotten are people who are using logic and reason, not emotion. It's obvious you know nothing about power, it's production or transmission (I have a good bit of background in power production/transmission and distribution) nor do you seem to want to look at the facts. Rather you want us to believe the hype put out by others without doing research to determine the real impact. You state "We have a treasure of migrating birds, nesting turtles and a very rich fauna endemic to the island" and most of us would agree- I do but you give us no facts that even suggest that there is going to be a creditable impact on any of that. Sure there will be some environmental impact but do those outweigh the benefits. Rather you start off with obviously over inflated "facts" and continue suggesting that somehow a few concrete structures poured into limestone will contaminate the groundwater with salt water, something that has no way of happening....your well on the other hand will. If you really want to protect the environment, instead of protesting the windmills, start a movement to use the power produced by them to power a state of the art sewage treatment system (I have no idea what Coz's system is but my guess is it's not good) and to power a new water desalination plant that would supply clean water to the residents and tourist and would protect the ground water you want to protect. Instead of protesting something you know nothing about, why not take a trip to Bonaire to see what a real system looks like. They have recently installed new windmills that produce 50% + of the island power and they are building the first modern sewage treatment system on any island in the Caribbean (their claims - I do not know for sure). You can see for yourself how much land is involved….and look for dead birds at the base of the windmills.

 

[Laura Cozumeleno]

:: México Power Group :: - Proyecto Cozumel They are using 6,132 hectare ; 15,152.501 acre
There´s no "existing roads" to move the towers thru... good business is also build them.... why not? construction business is adding and adding more money to the project!
The company has stated in an official document that the power IS NOT for Cozumel residents. The wind mill will produce the power to sell to Riviera Maya and Cancun. For Cozumel, they offer 10% reduction on the actual bill ONLY to government offices, schools and hospitals. It is all in the official Enviroment Impact Study document sent by Mexico Power Group to the Federal government for approval. All chambers of commerce in Cozumel have the document now and have done meetings with people to read it and know the true facts.
We have proposed other 9 NINE suitable places with same wind conditions in the whole state of Quintana Roo to install the mill . The only little problem is that the land in those 9 places is not "FREE", they have to pay for it, unlike in Cozumel where the local government "lended" at NO charge (nice huh?) the whole land to this company.

---------- Post Merged at 08:03 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Alex, There´s some negative comments to ignore. Some people do not know about the jungle, what´s in there, the endemic near extinct species, 7 years of construction that will devastate the area and the consequences of the whole project, etc. You need to keep informing everybody despite the offense or "names" people can call you. Accurate information and true facts without heart is what we need to provide to all people interested. We are doing well

---------- Post Merged at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------

what is a NIMBY whiner?

ok guys, let´s leave it like that, I wanted to talk to some empathetic ppl, about what I consider a problem, I guess some times you want to vent, communicate to ppl with a common interest, but I really dont know what a"nutter" , or NIMBY whiner. I guess it´s not what I want to be.

regards, Alex

Alex, There´s some negative comments to ignore. Some people do not know about the jungle, what´s in there, the endemic near extinct species, 7 years of construction that will devastate the area and the consequences of the whole project, etc. You need to keep informing everybody despite the offense or "names" people can call you. Accurate information and true facts without heart is what we need to provide to all people interested. We are doing well

---------- Post Merged at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Fatal Attraction: Birds and Wind Turbines - KQED QUEST - YouTube

Bird vs Wind Turbine - YouTube

 

[alexunderpressure]

:: México Power Group :: - Proyecto Cozumel They are using 6,132 hectare ; 15,152.501 acre
There´s no "existing roads" to move the towers thru... good business is also build them.... why not? construction business is adding and adding more money to the project!
The company has stated in an official document that the power IS NOT for Cozumel residents. The wind mill will produce the power to sell to Riviera Maya and Cancun. For Cozumel, they offer 10% reduction on the actual bill ONLY to government offices, schools and hospitals. It is all in the official Enviroment Impact Study document sent by Mexico Power Group to the Federal government for approval. All chambers of commerce in Cozumel have the document now and have done meetings with people to read it and know the true facts.
We have proposed other 9 NINE suitable places with same wind conditions in the whole state of Quintana Roo to install the mill . The only little problem is that the land in those 9 places is not "FREE", they have to pay for it, unlike in Cozumel where the local government "lended" at NO charge (nice huh?) the whole land to this company.

---------- Post Merged at 08:03 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Alex, There´s some negative comments to ignore. Some people do not know about the jungle, what´s in there, the endemic near extinct species, 7 years of construction that will devastate the area and the consequences of the whole project, etc. You need to keep informing everybody despite the offense or "names" people can call you. Accurate information and true facts without heart is what we need to provide to all people interested. We are doing well

---------- Post Merged at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------


Alex, There´s some negative comments to ignore. Some people do not know about the jungle, what´s in there, the endemic near extinct species, 7 years of construction that will devastate the area and the consequences of the whole project, etc. You need to keep informing everybody despite the offense or "names" people can call you. Accurate information and true facts without heart is what we need to provide to all people interested. We are doing well

---------- Post Merged at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Fatal Attraction: Birds and Wind Turbines - KQED QUEST - YouTube

Bird vs Wind Turbine - YouTube

Well, I posted links with info, with facts, but still....

 

[Mike]

What's the difference if Cozumel needs or doesn't need more electricity?

Last time I checked Cozumel wasn't its own country, but part of Mexico. Until Cozumel secedes from Mexico I think your government is going to look at the whole picture and decide how to manage Mexico's individual resources for the good of the entire country's needs. Again, I can understand the fears based on ecological impact of the island, but where the power goes is irrelevant. I'd focus on the environmental issues and not derail your focus.