NYCNaiad
Dive babble all day long
Wow! What a great bit of history. Thank you so much for sharing that. I had no idea.
This surprised me. I didn't know it was possible for free divers to get bent! So interesting to find out. Thanks!
A comparison between the risks of freediving and scubadiving
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Wow! What a great bit of history. Thank you so much for sharing that. I had no idea.
This surprised me. I didn't know it was possible for free divers to get bent! So interesting to find out. Thanks!
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@NYCNaiad
Interesting isn't it ?
How serendipitously SWB was discovered and bends can occur while free diving..I was with two of my freediving /spearfishing friends who were bent free diving after a SCUBA dive
Yep ! there was diving prior to the SCUBA board and all of the experts.
Several years ago my wife and I stopped for an after noon at the famed Blue hole in NM . I recall and I will never forget a conversation I had with a super duper PADI instructor, who was the world's best dive historian- he informed me there was absolutely NO DIVING prior to PADI-- Everything began with PADI-It was very entertaining,
I sincerely hope you take the time to google all the references-- I think you will discover them to be very educational also google the Bottom Scratchers of San Diego - the worlds first dive club- established in 1932- 87 years ago
Windy cold and snowing in NYC ?
Cheers from California where it all began so many long years ago
Sam Miller, 111
Interesting isn't it ?
How serendipitously SWB was discovered and bends can occur while free diving..I was with two of my freediving /spearfishing friends who were bent free diving after a SCUBA dive
Yep ! there was diving prior to the SCUBA board and all of the experts.
Several years ago my wife and I stopped for an after noon at the famed Blue hole in NM . I recall and I will never forget a conversation I had with a super duper PADI instructor, who was the world's best dive historian- he informed me there was absolutely NO DIVING prior to PADI-- Everything began with PADI-It was very entertaining,
I sincerely hope you take the time to google all the references-- I think you will discover them to be very educational also google the Bottom Scratchers of San Diego - the worlds first dive club- established in 1932- 87 years ago
Windy cold and snowing in NYC ?
Cheers from California where it all began so many long years ago
Sam Miller, 111
I learned this from a youtube video a while ago (hurray a reliable source of information
). It makes perfect sense when thinking about it , lots of residual nitrogen after scuba and then starting to suddenly make very rapid ascents when freediving with that extra nitrogen load.our padi instructor had never heard about it, I think it should be worth mentioning in the class at least
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@almostDIR
Hombre,
Well now you know the history and the name "Taravana " aka free diving bends
I suspect recognizing the quality of the current and immediate past PADI instructors that there is a lot about diving they haven't heard about and therefore do not teach
Stay warm in Finland
Sam Miller, 111
Hombre,
Well now you know the history and the name "Taravana " aka free diving bends
I suspect recognizing the quality of the current and immediate past PADI instructors that there is a lot about diving they haven't heard about and therefore do not teach
Stay warm in Finland
Sam Miller, 111
NYCNaiad
Dive babble all day long
I always look up the historical tidbits you reference. I find them fascinating! I also didn't know about the world's first dive club. How cool!
And to answer your question: On Thanksgiving, it was the coldest on record for that day in NYC history since 1871. It was 16F (-8.9C)! Now, the temp has gone back up & it's rainy in the 40-50s in F (4.4-10s in C).
JackOfDiamonds
Jewish Space Laser Operator
Your'e assumption is correct, we can only guess what really happened.
The popular opinion here is that despite his vast experience (Surfer, diver, swimmer.) he most likely panicked while trying to untangle himself and ended up drowning.
His lung capacity was pretty good as a free diver so most people think it probably happened just before he wanted to surface so he was running low on air.
Some people also assumed he was caught in the wire of his fishing gun , which added to the panic. How ever, the gun was not found until today . (People have confirmed seeing him enter the water with it) so just fueled further speculations.
Free Diving is FAR more dangerous than recreational scuba in my view and experience (actively diving since late 60's/early 70's):
1. SWBO: Lights off, no warning, no nothing; you have absolutely no control and no recourse, you just go blank and die! The ironic part here is that, the better "free diver" in holding your breather longer you are, the more susceptible you are to SWBO. Your only hope is an attentive buddy who is watching your every single microsecond of your dive and can discern when you have ad SWBO and would do something about it in time, and if not (most likely), you are again a gonner.
2. Entanglement of all sorts and depths including in less than 2 meters depth: Depending where one was in their breath holding time, they only have 1 to 3 minutes to get themselves out of the entanglement (hopefully they don't drop the cutting tool in their rush and panic) otherwise they are gonners. Entanglement can be as simple as a part of your fin getting stuck in a small crack in the rock with the waves pounding you so you can't reach your foot to release your fin or take your foot out of the fin, you are a gonner in a couple of minutes. The scenarios for simple, unexpected or even imagined yet very deadly entanglements are limitless in this wide world of free diving.
There are other dangers and risks involved in free diving but these are the main, most dangerous and frequently happening dangers in free diving out there. Other than that, free diving is awesome!!
1. SWBO: Lights off, no warning, no nothing; you have absolutely no control and no recourse, you just go blank and die! The ironic part here is that, the better "free diver" in holding your breather longer you are, the more susceptible you are to SWBO. Your only hope is an attentive buddy who is watching your every single microsecond of your dive and can discern when you have ad SWBO and would do something about it in time, and if not (most likely), you are again a gonner.
2. Entanglement of all sorts and depths including in less than 2 meters depth: Depending where one was in their breath holding time, they only have 1 to 3 minutes to get themselves out of the entanglement (hopefully they don't drop the cutting tool in their rush and panic) otherwise they are gonners. Entanglement can be as simple as a part of your fin getting stuck in a small crack in the rock with the waves pounding you so you can't reach your foot to release your fin or take your foot out of the fin, you are a gonner in a couple of minutes. The scenarios for simple, unexpected or even imagined yet very deadly entanglements are limitless in this wide world of free diving.
There are other dangers and risks involved in free diving but these are the main, most dangerous and frequently happening dangers in free diving out there. Other than that, free diving is awesome!!
I think the risk is more related to how close to the edge you are diving, how far you press your limits.
Freediving is a competitive sport, and there is always people who will compete against others or them self.
SCUBA is not so competitive, but some people like to go further past their, or others, limits.
If you keep to your comfort zone, listen to the recommendations from the ones that have the right experience (if it is an organisation standard, one good instructor or mentor) I think you are reasonable safe. If you like to bend the rules and be cooler than your friends att youtube, probably not as much.
Freediving is a competitive sport, and there is always people who will compete against others or them self.
SCUBA is not so competitive, but some people like to go further past their, or others, limits.
If you keep to your comfort zone, listen to the recommendations from the ones that have the right experience (if it is an organisation standard, one good instructor or mentor) I think you are reasonable safe. If you like to bend the rules and be cooler than your friends att youtube, probably not as much.
If its not on the interweb, it don't exist!
How did the divers before facebook and youtube know that they acctualy had been diving?
;-/
The theme of this thread seems to have taken a somewhat negative turn with respect to freediving, so I wanted to provide a little of my personal perspective on freediving.
I don’t have data or a firm opinion on the magnitude or the relative risks of scuba versus freediving. However, I think that it is pretty clear that scuba diving and freediving are two activities that can most definitely be enjoyed in a safe manner.
Diving with an attentive and well-trained buddy, limiting your depth and times, picking your days when conditions are good and also avoiding certain “risky” behaviors should effectively enhance safety for both freediving and scuba diving.
The particular challenges (or dangers) of each sport are somewhat different. Probably the one that gets the most attention (and rightfully so) is SWB (Shallow Water Blackout).
SWB is a loss of consciousness and can be preceded by other problems, such as LMC (loss of motor control). It is associated with a deficient partial pressure of oxygen in the brain. Generally, these problems are not going to suddenly appear out of nowhere and will not occur when a freediver attempts to constrain his diving within his personal capabilities – however in rare instances it CAN happen with little or no warning. Perhaps the rare occurrence of SWB is somewhat analogous to the “undeserved” decompression sickness that some scuba divers fall victim to.
The SWB is more severe (than a LMC) and generally does not occur until the freediver has reached or approached the surface. It is unusual for it to occur deeper than a few feet. This is an important consideration that may surprise people. These generalities are applicable to recreational freediving and may be less applicable to competitive or extreme freediving (where more involved safety protocols are warranted).
Should a SWB occur, an attentive buddy can recover the victim and in 99.9 % (my estimate) of the cases, the victim will regain consciousness within a few to several seconds and will suffer no significant or permanent harm (although his diving should be curtailed for the day). This initial loss of consciousness is thought to be a natural, brain protection mechanism, rather than a symptom of actual damage or an injury. This means that chances of complete recovery are extremely good in favorable circumstances. In this respect, the analogy with a Decompression Injury breaks down, since no actual injury occurs and medical treatment is not normally necessary.
If the buddy is well trained, attentive and conditions allow him to see the ascending diver and he maintains very close physical proximity to the location where the victim is ascending, then recovery is often not difficult. It is extremely beneficial to have a buddy watching your dive when freediving.
Another very significant (although somewhat new) technology is the Freedive Recovery Vest. I should disclose up front that we sell this device on our website, but I make no profit on it, all proceeds go to the manufacturer. Over the last few years, this device has gone through several iterative cycles of improvement with respect to functionality, convenience and minimization of drag. Basically, it is a life vest that is manually or automatically inflated (at depth or on the surface) by detonation of a large CO2 cartridge. I use the device myself.
The Freedive Recovery Vest is a highly sophisticated piece of electronic and mechanical technology that the diver programs with his maximum depth, maximum dive time and other input. If the diver approaches any of his own pre-set limits, he is given an audible warning prior to automatic detonation. Once activated, the vest will rapidly and safely lift the diver to the surface and support him there in a heads up position which can facilitate recovery by the buddy and also enhance the possibility of a self recovery, where the diver “wakes up” while being supported upright on the surface.
The consequences of a SWB on a solo freediver are quite often fatal, but there are techniques to avoid them and also some very robust means to safely recover from them. It is important that freedivers complete adequate training in the handling of SWB.
It would be unfortunate for people who are potentially interested in taking a formal freediving class to be discouraged by excessive emphasis of the dangers of the sport. A considerable portion of these classes is focused on emergency response and buddy techniques; and more emphasis is given to these considerations rather than attainment of a particular depth or time.
Both scuba diving and freediving require training and personal discipline to be enjoyed safely.
Dano with MAKO on the Freedive Recovery Vest:
I don’t have data or a firm opinion on the magnitude or the relative risks of scuba versus freediving. However, I think that it is pretty clear that scuba diving and freediving are two activities that can most definitely be enjoyed in a safe manner.
Diving with an attentive and well-trained buddy, limiting your depth and times, picking your days when conditions are good and also avoiding certain “risky” behaviors should effectively enhance safety for both freediving and scuba diving.
The particular challenges (or dangers) of each sport are somewhat different. Probably the one that gets the most attention (and rightfully so) is SWB (Shallow Water Blackout).
SWB is a loss of consciousness and can be preceded by other problems, such as LMC (loss of motor control). It is associated with a deficient partial pressure of oxygen in the brain. Generally, these problems are not going to suddenly appear out of nowhere and will not occur when a freediver attempts to constrain his diving within his personal capabilities – however in rare instances it CAN happen with little or no warning. Perhaps the rare occurrence of SWB is somewhat analogous to the “undeserved” decompression sickness that some scuba divers fall victim to.
The SWB is more severe (than a LMC) and generally does not occur until the freediver has reached or approached the surface. It is unusual for it to occur deeper than a few feet. This is an important consideration that may surprise people. These generalities are applicable to recreational freediving and may be less applicable to competitive or extreme freediving (where more involved safety protocols are warranted).
Should a SWB occur, an attentive buddy can recover the victim and in 99.9 % (my estimate) of the cases, the victim will regain consciousness within a few to several seconds and will suffer no significant or permanent harm (although his diving should be curtailed for the day). This initial loss of consciousness is thought to be a natural, brain protection mechanism, rather than a symptom of actual damage or an injury. This means that chances of complete recovery are extremely good in favorable circumstances. In this respect, the analogy with a Decompression Injury breaks down, since no actual injury occurs and medical treatment is not normally necessary.
If the buddy is well trained, attentive and conditions allow him to see the ascending diver and he maintains very close physical proximity to the location where the victim is ascending, then recovery is often not difficult. It is extremely beneficial to have a buddy watching your dive when freediving.
Another very significant (although somewhat new) technology is the Freedive Recovery Vest. I should disclose up front that we sell this device on our website, but I make no profit on it, all proceeds go to the manufacturer. Over the last few years, this device has gone through several iterative cycles of improvement with respect to functionality, convenience and minimization of drag. Basically, it is a life vest that is manually or automatically inflated (at depth or on the surface) by detonation of a large CO2 cartridge. I use the device myself.
The Freedive Recovery Vest is a highly sophisticated piece of electronic and mechanical technology that the diver programs with his maximum depth, maximum dive time and other input. If the diver approaches any of his own pre-set limits, he is given an audible warning prior to automatic detonation. Once activated, the vest will rapidly and safely lift the diver to the surface and support him there in a heads up position which can facilitate recovery by the buddy and also enhance the possibility of a self recovery, where the diver “wakes up” while being supported upright on the surface.
The consequences of a SWB on a solo freediver are quite often fatal, but there are techniques to avoid them and also some very robust means to safely recover from them. It is important that freedivers complete adequate training in the handling of SWB.
It would be unfortunate for people who are potentially interested in taking a formal freediving class to be discouraged by excessive emphasis of the dangers of the sport. A considerable portion of these classes is focused on emergency response and buddy techniques; and more emphasis is given to these considerations rather than attainment of a particular depth or time.
Both scuba diving and freediving require training and personal discipline to be enjoyed safely.
Dano with MAKO on the Freedive Recovery Vest:
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