A beginner in tech -- TDI or IANTD?

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I totally agree with you about the WKPP, James, but the SFDJ article does specifically talk about single-tank divers, and I think it could quite easily be construed to mean that the same strictness should be applied there. And maybe that's what Bill Mee meant -- I don't know. But I don't believe most DIR divers apply the rule in that strict an interpretation for single tank diving.
 
I had several very nice dives with different GUE-trained DIR divers before I had my first DIR class myself (not with GUE). I was then wearing a very traditional recreational setup. Before we dived, we went over our respective gears and our safety procedures.

From what I have read, I am quite sure that there have been GUE-trained divers who have had a GUE-only attitude, so it is possible for someone to hear that concept from a supposedly reputable source. I have never met anyone like that myself, though.
 
I had several very nice dives with different GUE-trained DIR divers before I had my first DIR class myself (not with GUE). I was then wearing a very traditional recreational setup. Before we dived, we went over our respective gears and our safety procedures.

From what I have read, I am quite sure that there have been GUE-trained divers who have had a GUE-only attitude, so it is possible for someone to hear that concept from a supposedly reputable source. I have never met anyone like that myself, though.

Likewise, in my experience GUE divers have never been some kind of exclusive club that won't dive with non-GUE divers.

Be interested in the nay-Sayers as to what has prompted such a vitriolic reaction. Did Central and the other chap have some bad experiences? What were they?

Thx,
J
 
I second your remark about the IANTD course materials. I hear that TDI's Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures course materials are well written, though - perhaps marketing director Steve Lewis had a hand in that? I just finished reading his "The Six Skills", and of course, I'm a huge fan of his blog. I might buy the TDI material just for the heck of it!

My limited experience of TDI (adv nitrox, ccr mod1), course material was v poor. Formulae explained in about as confusing a way as I think you could design. Talent, in an inverted way. Some exam questions with incorrect answers. Nothing catastrophic but I certainly wouldn't be gushing about them.

J
 
I second your remark about the IANTD course materials. I hear that TDI's Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures course materials are well written, though - perhaps marketing director Steve Lewis had a hand in that? I just finished reading his "The Six Skills", and of course, I'm a huge fan of his blog. I might buy the TDI material just for the heck of it!


Thank you for the mention of my book... appreciate the plug! I need to sell more LOL

I have written training materials for TDI and SDI but my only involvement with the new Advanced Nitrox and or Deco Book (principal author on both was cave instructor Richard Dreher) was as part of the review team.

I believe the new deco book is one of the best student manuals we have produced.

One of the best reference books on the topic of decompression in my opinion is Mark Powell's "Deco for Divers" which I would recommend to anyone thinking about conducting staged decompression dives of any kind.
 
Thank you for the mention of my book... appreciate the plug! I need to sell more LOL

I have written training materials for TDI and SDI but my only involvement with the new Advanced Nitrox and or Deco Book (principal author on both was cave instructor Richard Dreher) was as part of the review team.

I believe the new deco book is one of the best student manuals we have produced.

One of the best reference books on the topic of decompression in my opinion is Mark Powell's "Deco for Divers" which I would recommend to anyone thinking about conducting staged decompression dives of any kind.

Steve, have to ask you - what possessed TDI to try to explain Dalton's Law as a Pig flies over a Frog in a Pond in the Adv Nitrox book??? it made me laugh (in a good way) but seemed kinda, well, weird. :-)

(also in the interest of fairness, I have yet to come across any agency that it's hard not to be critical of in terms of written material. Padi probably is the best but they also have deepest pockets no doubt)

J
 
One of the things to consider is how far you really think you want to go technical training. If you think you may want to go to trimix diving in excess of, say 250 feet, you may want to scope out the entire path to that goal with an agency. Agencies like TDI and IANTD are pretty similar in their requirements, but other agencies can be very different. Moreover, you may find it very hard to transfer your certifications from one agency to another if you decide to make a change along the way. Don't just look at the requirements for the courses--some of them have very different requirements for experience before one can take a course.

How different can it be? It can be extremely different. I assure you that it can be a difference of years in reaching the same level of certification, depending upon your situation. Looking ahead this way is the reason I switched agencies myself.
 
I believe the new deco book is one of the best student manuals we have produced.

So the new Deco Procedures text is now available? (I've enjoyed my copy of "The Six Skills" too.)
 
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An email from TDI this AM said the new Deco Procs manual is still about 60 days from shipping.
 
Bill Mee's comments in the Florida Dive Journal article are a rather extreme version of Rule 1, because he includes gear configuration into the statement. I don't think any of us would argue that it's unreasonable to avoid diving with someone who doesn't share your view of how buddies should behave toward one another, or how gas should be managed. If you refuse to maintain gas reserves that will get both of us to the surface safely, in my view, you ARE an unsafe diver, and I would refuse to do that dive with you. But with respect to gear, I think most of us (DIR/GUE divers) would evaluate someone's gear configuration with an eye to whether it appeared to be safe, rather than whether it appeared the same as ours. But I'm sure people become more sticklers as the magnitude and risk of the dives increases.
Hi Lynne,
I would like to put some perspective on Bill's article....this was written in the late nineties, and it had a "purpose" as an article. At this time, there were next to no bp/wing divers, and if you saw a long hose on a diver, 99% of the time it was "stuffed" into some form of holder where it would have to be extracted to get at it, and could take from a few seconds to a minute to actually donate.

At this time, the tech agencies and recreational agencies, were pushing people into very bad gear configurations.
Bill was attempting to give a thinking diver a new criteria to consider--that if a diver is supposed to be buddied to him/her ( like what we call insta-buddies) , then this instabuddy needs to meet at least a few criteria: the configuration should not be completely retarded, or the person cant really be a buddy....the person needs to feel similar buddy responsibilities....the person should not be a swimming accident waiting to happen ( their were alot of these on charter boats in florida back in the nineties).
If you had to be litteral with Bill's article today, it would seem unreasonably restrictive of who you could dive with. However, in the time period, what was considered essentially similar gear, was much looser than it is today--at least for recreational single tank diving outside of the WKPP. If Bill had been on a charter boat in 1998, and a diver with a stuffed hose and pressure guage dragging on the ground as he walked, wanted to buddy with him, Bill would have said NO...But with the configurations of 95% of the people on the tech lists of scuba board today, Bill would have said "fine, that would be great", and then he would have talked briefly about his expectations for the dive.


Today, if Bill Mee or I go out on a charter boat for a recreational dive, Bill and I would be buddies, and we will let practically anybody buddy with us, unless they look like a swimming accident ready to happen. There are divers like this, but these days it is more of the exception than the norm. In the nineties, it could have been 40% of the boat that looked like they were a swimming accident waiting to happen.

One other issue I would have to address....If the typical tech diver I have met from scubaboard wanted to put their gear on and dive in a pool by themselves--without a buddy, I would be inclined to say fine--if they can't survive in the pool without help, they are not a tech diver....In any event, I would expect them to be very safe.

On the other end of the spectrum, when any of us perform a real tech dive, with deco creating a virtual overhead, all buddy and gear issues are dramatically more important than in the pool. If you were in the pool with your buddy, the possibility of one of you going OOA is not going to injure either of you---on the tech dive at a virtual overhead, the gas issues are life threatening. Buddy awareness, proceedures, and familiarity with each other's gear are all very important to the safey of this dive.

And there all the dive profiles more challenging than the pool, but less challenging AND much less dangerous than the virtual overhead tech dive, in a continuum.

New tech divers are going to need to drill more than long time tech divers, to be certain they have the "reflexes" they need for the virtual overheads. Long time tech divers are already going to have the reflexes, and as long as they continue to do tech dives with some frequency, they will keep the reflexes, and not need to drill them every dive. This will also account for why new tech divers are always drilling and not really enjoying the dives like we do--and why us long time divers can have more fun on most dives :-)



So my point here, is that on a recreational "baby dive" to 50 or 60 feet, a good tech diver CAN buddy with a diver using different but not unsafe gear, on this single tank baby dive. Bill was not discussing this issue, the way that it will happen TODAY.
 

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