A beginner in tech -- TDI or IANTD?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Steve, have to ask you - what possessed TDI to try to explain Dalton's Law as a Pig flies over a Frog in a Pond in the Adv Nitrox book??? it made me laugh (in a good way) but seemed kinda, well, weird. :-)

(also in the interest of fairness, I have yet to come across any agency that it's hard not to be critical of in terms of written material. Padi probably is the best but they also have deepest pockets no doubt)

J

Which edition has that in it?
 
So the new Deco Procedures text is now available? (I've enjoyed my copy of "The Six Skills" too.)


Ron: it'll be a while before it is on the shelves... not sure how long. And glad you are enjoying my book...
 
.this was written in the late nineties, and it had a "purpose" as an article. ...

Bill was attempting to give a thinking diver a new criteria to consider--

If you had to be litteral with Bill's article today, it would seem unreasonably restrictive of who you could dive with. ...

If Bill had been on a charter boat in 1998, and a diver with a stuffed hose and pressure guage dragging on the ground as he walked, wanted to buddy with him, Bill would have said NO...But with the configurations of 95% of the people on the tech lists of scuba board today, Bill would have said "fine, that would be great", and then he would have talked briefly about his expectations for the dive.

Today, if Bill Mee or I go out on a charter boat for a recreational dive, Bill and I would be buddies, and we will let practically anybody buddy with us, unless they look like a swimming accident ready to happen. ...

Dan's post reminds me of a concept I observed in my profession, which is educational theory. I wrote a paper on it years ago for a class when I was getting my administration certification. I called it the "Reduction Funnel."

You start with a big idea, one that has been carefully thought out. It seems to work pretty well. That big idea is taught to a group, but in reality not all of it can be truly presented, and less of even that reduced presentation is understood by the group. That group goes on to teach it themselves, presenting less than they learned to another group than learns only a percentage of what is presented. The process continues until at the bottom of the funnel the big idea is reduced to a few shouted slogans that may misstate the original big idea. At the top of the funnel, practitioners understand the complexities and can make mature judgments within the system. The farther you are down the funnel, though, the more you rely on those few shouted slogans, and the more dogmatically you demand that they be followed despite the circumstances.

The primary example I used was the writing instruction then being used in one of the largest school districts in the nation. In this instruction, all students in that school district were taught that they must always follow certain practices in their writing, practices that made no sense to me and were rarely followed by professional writers. I followed it back to the original theory on which they were based, and I saw that these absolute rules contradicted the main idea of the original theory, a theory that included the idea of flexibility in approaches to writing. These "rules" were in fact simply derived from what was shown in the first example used in the full explanation--students were being taught that what the instructors saw in the first (of many) examples of ways to write was the only way it should be done.

An example from scuba instruction would be signs of panic. Scuba instruction manuals teach divers to look at a variety of signs that could indicate a panicked diver, including equipment rejection, but somehow that relatively complex idea has been reduced to the stern warning that placing a mask on the forehead is a sure sign of panic.

As I read Dan's comment, a person who truly understands the nature of diving in general and technical diving in particular can look at a situation and make a mature decision based on that judgment rather than an unthinking adherence to a poorly understood "rule."
 
Here's an example of how ideas can be reduced in technical diving. Here is an excerpt from George Irvine's definition of a stroke:

Very simply put, a "stroke" is somebody you don't want to dive with....

Obvious strokes are not so bad - you can see them and you know to avoid them. Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration. If you see something that is a complete mess, makes no sense, is less than optimal, or is designed to accommodate some phobia while ignoring all else, you are dealing with a stroke. If the stroke is pontificating about how he can "handle" deep air diving, or obsessing about depth, or appears to be trying to compensate for internal fears, this is an obvious stroke and you merely avoid them.​

It would not be hard for a person who is incapable of independent thought to take away from that an "absolute rule" that you should not ever dive with someone whose gear is "less than optimal." Since your gear is "optimal," any variation of that setup would have to be "less than Optimal," wouldn't it?
 
Thanks John and Dan for the explanations. I think that part of the evolution from the 90's that Dan mentions about divers growing into more sensible configurations and practices, should also include more open communications when explaining why we do things. Just telling Centrals from Hong Kong that he is wrong or that his unverified quote may not even be true is not conducive to anything positive. We know about the rules and how, when taken out of context, they can lead to comments like the one referred to in Asian Divers magazine. Just recognize rule #1 and how it deceptively seems to go in the same direction of that magazine comment, and then explain why it doesn't. And finally back the explanation with real life experiences. We're slowly growing out of the "flame wars" environment of the 90's. Let's keep it going in the right direction.
 
Teaching Old Dogs New Trick words by Lilledeshan Bose.
The following is the extract from the text.
"It is a holistic system of diving: From head to toe, mind and body," explains Nathan Floro, the Philippine representative of the DIR purveyors, the GUE...........
DIR divers follow rule Number One:........
Extensive training includes no smoking, a regular exercise routine, and knowing your limits. These are rules many divers can live with; but many divers feel that rule No. 1, where you dive only other DIR divers, is too much.

At least I never call DIR as "diving's answer to the Seventh Day Adventists......who will insist on the same equipment, same haircut, same accent, and undergo the same training as they do in order to dive with them.
 
Thank you for the mention of my book... appreciate the plug! I need to sell more LOL

I have written training materials for TDI and SDI but my only involvement with the new Advanced Nitrox and or Deco Book (principal author on both was cave instructor Richard Dreher) was as part of the review team.

I believe the new deco book is one of the best student manuals we have produced.

One of the best reference books on the topic of decompression in my opinion is Mark Powell's "Deco for Divers" which I would recommend to anyone thinking about conducting staged decompression dives of any kind.

It was great fun reading "The Six Skills". Not only was the material excellent, it was also presented in a very conversational, entertaining and yet succinct fashion. Thanks once again - and for your heads-up re: TDI's new deco material and Mr. Powell's book. I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled.
 
Many thanks for all your advice~ I'm gonna put GUE fundamentals in my future plan for sure. I've heard good things about this course sooo many times.
Right now, I would still like to have some recommendations of instructors etc. in the Philippines. I suppose GUE courses need a lot of time to plan ahead, right?

Another great GUE fundies instructor that travels in the area is Leon Boey based out of Singapore. He can be found at Living Seas - GUE Training and Scuba Diving in Singapore. They also organize tech trips in the area.
 

Back
Top Bottom