(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

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This is what I got out of the article.
When the diver was found, he did not have positive bouyancy established (was found underwater)
BC was not inflated, Weight was not dropped. At least one would keep the diver at the surface (this is not speculation, the diver was found underwater, and a PSD did say that he still had his weight belt). The diver failed to do those functions at the surface. It is not uncommon for a BC to fail, but a weight belt? I guess it's possible, but both? If both failed than God wanted him real bad and probably would strike anybody down with lightning that tried to save him.
This leads me to only two possible deductions (educated speculations).

1) the diver was unresponsive or became unresponsive before he could establish bouyancy (3-10 seconds), and slipped back underwater shortly after. There would be very little time for a succesful surface rescue (there are situations where the diver would be at the surface slightly longer)

2) the diver panicked and failed to establish bouyancy. In which case it is very likely he was not as experienced as the article claims and should not be diving the SG in those conditions (4-7 ft waves and high current)

Could the capitan throw a line to a diver at the wrong bouy (I will guess) 30 ft away? (sure) Would the throw be accurate in 4-7 ft waves to a target 6 inches high?(probably not) Would it do any good if the diver was unresponsive or panicked?(probably not) Should the capitan waste the time with a line or just get on the way to pick-up the diver. Would the capitan be able to help the diver if he would cut the anchor line, start the engine with other divers in the water, and rush to pull him out? (maby) Would it be safe for the other divers in the water? (NO) Would he be called irresponsible on ScubaBoard if one of the other divers got hurt by the boat? (no comment) Should the capitan send other divers to look for him without a new dive plan and unprepared equipment for a new dive to 100ft + and 4-7 ft waves with high current? (NO) Would it take longer than 5 minutes for the divers to prepare for the dive? (YES) Do we expect recreational divers to be qualified for a rescue dive like that? (I don't) Would the victim diver have any chance of surviving after being underwater for more than 5 minutes? (not likely, but it has happened in the past)

IMHO the capitan should have made sure that other divers were safe, untie the boat, drift away from the dive site, start the engine/s and than look for the diver. From the news articles it seems that thats what he did. No blame here.

On a side note, I have a cabin cruiser on lake Michigan and the worst I have been in is 6-9 ft waves. Slow speed maneuvering is not to precise in 4-7 ft waves while trying to go cross current. And it takes me more than 1 minute just to vent the engine compartment before I start the engine.
 
String, you have missed the point in the exercise between Mempilot and me. He did the "what if " and I answered his "what if" and did the same to him, taking the opposite tack. I was not blaming but changing it to a "what if " this were to have happened. We don't know why the diver died, exactly, and we really don't know what the boat Capt said to the diver, except what the boat Capt is telling us he said, exaclty. Since the diver is deceased he cannot tells us.
 
MoonWrasse:
I don't see where PilotFish is wanting to "blame someone" but rather try to understand and make suggestions as to how we as a group can better mitigate risks, which should be the goal of all divers, right?

I really don't understand why some posters here feel so threatened by that concept.


Thank you Moon. That is exactly right, I'm exploring all possibilities. The diver cannot speak for himself, unfortunately. Why a lot of people are automatically blaming the diver is a bit premature. I have noticed, with some interest, that a lot of Dive Crew/Capt defenders, diver blamers, come form the Florida area.

Is it possible it was the divers fault? Yes. Is it possible the Capt did the wrong thing, told him the wrong thing? Yes. Anything, and everything, is possible. We all don't know and that is why we are discussing it, exploring it, and trying to find an answer in the hopes we all can learn from it.
 
String:
The huge list of claims and conclusions where he lists blames "captains fault", "buddys fault" "divers fault" etc.

In one post he claims he knows it was preventable which is an enourmous leap of logic given no details are known.

Again, String, Mempilot and I were doing the "what if"

Where did I say it was preventable? Please post that link? You might be confused again by my statement, " a diver died that should not have" All of us should not die diving.
 
sharpenu:
Actually, Occam's Razor fits this nicely. What requires less assumption? That an experienced Captain who has done this trip four times a week for the last 3 years without incident was not experienced enough, or that a diver who was unprepared (as evidenced by the weight belt, BC, lack of buddy) did a dive beyond his experience level?

hmmmmmmmmm, from the Florida area. How do you know so much about this Capt that he does it 4 times a week and has done it for 4 years? Do you know how many dives the diver had, or his cert level?
 
ScubaTwo:
I dont know of course because I wasnt there but I would bet the captain and all other ppl involved feel pretty crappy as it is without being dragged thru the mud by ppl who are playing the blame game. A little empathy in this kind of thread would go a long way.

How about some empathy for the deceased diver?
 
PRL:
This is what I got out of the article.
When the diver was found, he did not have positive bouyancy established (was found underwater)
BC was not inflated, Weight was not dropped. At least one would keep the diver at the surface (this is not speculation, the diver was found underwater, and a PSD did say that he still had his weight belt). The diver failed to do those functions at the surface. It is not uncommon for a BC to fail, but a weight belt? I guess it's possible, but both? If both failed than God wanted him real bad and probably would strike anybody down with lightning that tried to save him.
This leads me to only two possible deductions (educated speculations).

1) the diver was unresponsive or became unresponsive before he could establish bouyancy (3-10 seconds), and slipped back underwater shortly after. There would be very little time for a succesful surface rescue (there are situations where the diver would be at the surface slightly longer)

2) the diver panicked and failed to establish bouyancy. In which case it is very likely he was not as experienced as the article claims and should not be diving the SG in those conditions (4-7 ft waves and high current)

Could the capitan throw a line to a diver at the wrong bouy (I will guess) 30 ft away? (sure) Would the throw be accurate in 4-7 ft waves to a target 6 inches high?(probably not) Would it do any good if the diver was unresponsive or panicked?(probably not) Should the capitan waste the time with a line or just get on the way to pick-up the diver. Would the capitan be able to help the diver if he would cut the anchor line, start the engine with other divers in the water, and rush to pull him out? (maby) Would it be safe for the other divers in the water? (NO) Would he be called irresponsible on ScubaBoard if one of the other divers got hurt by the boat? (no comment) Should the capitan send other divers to look for him without a new dive plan and unprepared equipment for a new dive to 100ft + and 4-7 ft waves with high current? (NO) Would it take longer than 5 minutes for the divers to prepare for the dive? (YES) Do we expect recreational divers to be qualified for a rescue dive like that? (I don't) Would the victim diver have any chance of surviving after being underwater for more than 5 minutes? (not likely, but it has happened in the past)

IMHO the capitan should have made sure that other divers were safe, untie the boat, drift away from the dive site, start the engine/s and than look for the diver. From the news articles it seems that thats what he did. No blame here.

On a side note, I have a cabin cruiser on lake Michigan and the worst I have been in is 6-9 ft waves. Slow speed maneuvering is not to precise in 4-7 ft waves while trying to go cross current. And it takes me more than 1 minute just to vent the engine compartment before I start the engine.


Should a crew/Capt/Dive Op that takes divers out to this advanced site, knowing all the conditions, better than any diver, have had a plan in place for this type of emergency? Yeah, probably.
 
PF if you screw up you can die, accept the fact.
 
Please see post #68 in thread: "What is a Dive Op's responsibility to you if you surface and signal you're in distress."

That informed post by Scuba got me to thinking, if we have Lifeguards at the beach/pool that are willing/able, and trained, to jump in to save us when we are in distress, is it unreasonable for a Dive Op to do the same, or, at the very minimum, have a plan to get a floatation device to the distressed diver?
 

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