(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

[sharpenu]

The reason I have the opinion I do about the diver and the captian is this:

Living in FL, we see many, many "experienced divers" who have no business holding the C cards that they do. I'm sure ANY FL diver that has spent any significant time around the diving community will agree. Those of you in the more northern areas don't see this as much, because there is a lot more dedication required to dive in cold water with low viz, so the divers you see up north are more hard core.

We see divers who only dive while they are here staying in the time share once a year. I went on a dive today where a diver on the boat showed up with a non functional reg, BC had a hole in it, a computer with a dead battery and one of his 2 tanks was empty. We didn't know any of this until we were underway. He did the first dive with the other divers loaning him gear. The crew didn't let him do the second dive, after seeing his poor skills on the first.

This scene play out constantly here. I have dove the area and I am familiar with the boat. It is a typical Florida operation. see the web site:

http://www.itsadive.com/Dive_Spiegel_Grove.htm

 

[String]

Yes. Is it possible the Capt did the wrong thing, told him the wrong thing? Yes.

Whenever you get on a dive YOU are responsible for your own safety. If you need nannying then you need to pay for an intstructor. If in distress and someone tells you to do something you think is wrong or dangerous then your own self preservation should come into this - you'd refuse to do something obviously wrong or dangerous. By agreeing and doing what someone told you you have automatically thought it through and agreed with their course of action. Nobody is going to do something that could be detrimental to their health because someone told them to if they know its the wrong move.

 

[String]

is it unreasonable for a Dive Op to do the same, or, at the very minimum, have a plan to get a floatation device to the distressed diver?

In lots of cases yes. You are hiring a dive taxi to get you to/from the site. You are supposed to be able to look after yourself and not have to rely on someone to get you out of trouble. As i said above, if you want a rescue diver standing by or so on then you are basically admitting the dive or risks are above and beyond your experience level therefore you shouldnt be doing it.

If anyone has an incident other divers and boats will respond *if able*. In gauging what their response will be they have to factor in the risk to other divers in the water or on stops not only off their boat but others too, the time in unmooring and many other things. "Getting a floatation device" to someone isnt as simple as it sounds.

 

[String]

What happens to me if the crew, Capt, Dive Op screws up?

Define screw up? Crash into a rock taxiing you to the dive site? Cutting you apart with the prop ? Yeah in most cases they could well be dive op screw ups.

However if you're a certified diver once on the dive you are responsible entirely for your own actions and safety. If you feel you need to rely on someone else to keep you safe then you shouldnt be on that dive.

 

[my1ocean]

After reading the article "could the diver be saved" it was done by a sensationalist journalist. Chances are that soon after the diver went down he was beyond hope unless his buddy found him on the way up, knew how to effect a rescue in rough seas and found him before his lungs filled with seawater. The only way this diver would have been rescued by a service is if he was floating and needed to be found.

I am curious if an investigator actually looks at all the info, the dive computer, tank air, time lines, autopsy reports and the like to put together a comprehensive report. The dive computer would be particularly instructive, it would be similar to the computers on a lot of vehicles that record the previous events prior to an accident. Does anyone know if DAN or some other agency dissects this info?

Yes. All the gear is confiscated by the investigating agency, in this case Monroe County Sherrif's Dept. The gear is inspected for any malfunctions and the computer will be examined for dive profiles. As soon as I find out where one can access a public comprehensive report I will post that info. However, the autopsy is not complete yet and I would guess it will be another week before any info is released.

 

[my1ocean]

As i said above, if you want a rescue diver standing by or so on then you are basically admitting the dive or risks are above and beyond your experience level therefore you shouldnt be doing it.

I think you said it before but I just want to clarify that it's not bad to increase your ability by hiring an instructor to assist you or train you in dives that are currently over your head. But, I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiment of not having a rescue diver waiting for some one to have problems on a dive they shouldn't be on in the first place. Nor do I think a diver should hire a guide when they really need an instructor. Far too often I find myself training people when they are paying me for a guide.

 

[String]

Ive got no objections to increasing experience to dives and conditions by hiring someone experienced or an instructor but if you are paying for just a dive then you have to admit to yourself you think the dive is ok for your level and therefore shouldnt be relying on someone else to get you out of trouble you may get yourself into. If you arent confident in your own ability and experience for a specific dive you really need to be paying someone to come with you. However, people that ARE comfortable with the dive on offer shouldnt be forced to pay extra to have a babysitter.

 

[KrisB]

I think part of the trouble is that people are overconfident. I'm sure that until I heard the "truth" about this dive site, I would have been confident in diving there. Now that other information has come to light (e.g. strength of currents, etc.) I'm certain I won't be diving there for quite some time.

This comes back to the dive ops. Quite often they fail to disclose the dangers associated with a dive site and say "Advanced Divers Only" -- well, really, what is an advanced diver? I've been on the same boat as an AOW with 100 dives and it was obvious I was more comfortable diving than he was, despite being barely certified (10 dives).

Something that may be good for these dive ops to consider -- the principle of informed consent. It's the same principle you agree to when you go in for surgery. You are informed of the risks and choose to take them... and they're not generic. They are specific to the procedure you are undertaking. We all know we could die from any one of a multitude of things while diving. But, we should also be informed when a situation is going to make one or more of those factors more prominent.

 

[MoonWrasse]

I think part of the trouble is that people are overconfident. I'm sure that until I heard the "truth" about this dive site, I would have been confident in diving there. Now that other information has come to light (e.g. strength of currents, etc.) I'm certain I won't be diving there for quite some time.

This comes back to the dive ops. Quite often they fail to disclose the dangers associated with a dive site and say "Advanced Divers Only" -- well, really, what is an advanced diver? I've been on the same boat as an AOW with 100 dives and it was obvious I was more comfortable diving than he was, despite being barely certified (10 dives).

Something that may be good for these dive ops to consider -- the principle of informed consent. It's the same principle you agree to when you go in for surgery. You are informed of the risks and choose to take them... and they're not generic. They are specific to the procedure you are undertaking. We all know we could die from any one of a multitude of things while diving. But, we should also be informed when a situation is going to make one or more of those factors more prominent.

Good points, however there's a natural conflict of interest that the specific dangers are muted. Too much emphasis on the dangers by a dive operator, and he's not going to do a lot of business.

 

[dive]

I think part of the trouble is that people are overconfident. I'm sure that until I heard the "truth" about this dive site, I would have been confident in diving there. Now that other information has come to light (e.g. strength of currents, etc.) I'm certain I won't be diving there for quite some time.

This comes back to the dive ops. Quite often they fail to disclose the dangers associated with a dive site and say "Advanced Divers Only" -- well, really, what is an advanced diver? I've been on the same boat as an AOW with 100 dives and it was obvious I was more comfortable diving than he was, despite being barely certified (10 dives).

Something that may be good for these dive ops to consider -- the principle of informed consent. It's the same principle you agree to when you go in for surgery. You are informed of the risks and choose to take them... and they're not generic. They are specific to the procedure you are undertaking. We all know we could die from any one of a multitude of things while diving. But, we should also be informed when a situation is going to make one or more of those factors more prominent.

Maybe we should just have the captain go do the dive for us also.

Are maybe the diver should go out and do some homework about the dive site that he/she is going to be diving at. We have to take some responsibility for are self sometime and quit pointing fingers.