3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

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There are many ways to supervise divers...in the water and out...you dont have to be in the water, with the divers to supervise them.....On a wreck dive like this, the DM, in my eyes should be topside where they can help more in an emergency, like they did when the diver came up...if the DM was in the water....then what?? and lets say the DM was in the water, what makes you think those divers wanted the DM leading or following them??

Im sure the briefing was adequate.....the operators in the Keys are great about this

The DM supervision was adequate and correct in this situation....same as on the other wrecks...as you said your responsible for yourself and to dive what you know and your plan.....

I never rely on anyone else when I go diving..I look out for myself and others, and hope they do the same, but I dont rely on them watching my back
 
howarde:
Even being a qualified "wreck diver" doesn't mean anything either. What happened to Steven Donathan? (If you don't know... google him)

No one knows what happened to Steve. He had the gear, the training and the experience to do the dive he made when he died.

He had hundreds of dives on the wreck that he died on, and knew it like the back of his hand. I was diving with him on the Yukon about a month before his death. Watching him penetrate any wreck in So Cal was an amazing site.
 
Monroe County Sheriff's Office
Daily Crime and Information Report
March 17, 2007 - 6:45 p.m.

Detectives investigate deaths

Key Largo, Fla. - Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives are investigating the deaths of three divers who entered the wreck of the Spiegel Grove Friday and never came out.

Lead Detective Mark Coleman says he has discovered some reasons why this terrible tragedy may have occurred, besides the fact that the men were diving in an area of the ship not intended for such forays.

According to Detective Coleman:

The men, all experienced divers, did not have a dive plan. A dive plan, he says, is crucial in order to make sure all participants in the dive know what to expect, and to make sure the divers are properly prepared for the coming dive.

The men had no dive reels with them to show them the way out of the wreck. Dive reels are spools of line which are attached at the entrance to the dive. The divers let out line as they progress and, thus, are able to find their way out again.

The men did not take enough dive tanks with them to complete the dive. Normally, according to Detective Coleman, divers planning an extensive penetration dive such as this one take down "stage tanks" which are staged all along the dive route so they have new tanks when they run low on air. These divers had several stage tanks with them, but they were staged much higher in the vessel, and closer to the entrance, than their bodies were found. They only carried single tanks with them. Had they had a safety line, they may have been able to find their way back to the tanks.

Detective Coleman said when he interviewed Howard Spralter, the lone survivor of the group, he admitted they did not take all the safety precautions they should have to complete the dive.

"The divers who went in to recover the bodies said this portion of the ship has large amounts of silt built up inside," said Detective Coleman. "It doesn't take very much movement to kick that silt up and cause problems with your ability to see. Without a line to follow out, and with lots of silt in the water, it would have been virtually impossible for them to find their way out of the wreck," he said.

The Spiegel Grove is a popular dive spot off of Key Largo. The upper portions of the ship have many areas that have been prepared specifically for penetration dives with holes cut for ingress and egress, and markings on the walls showing clearly which ways to go. The portion of the ship these divers were in were lower down, where all the entrances were sealed to prevent entrance. It is unknown how the entrance they used was opened, but it was not intended for use as an entrance to the wreck.

The men's bodies have been transported to Key West and autopsies will be performed to determine the cause of their deaths. Assisting in the body recovery today was Key Largo Fire/Rescue, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and the United States Coast Guard.
---------
As I feared...
Rick
 
deepedge:
I must reply BS to a few post here!

At disney.. they control the ride, the safety, etc. On an open water dive, a TRAINED diver should (by research, training, and briefing) understand the risk, the dive itself, etc. We surrender our very lives to Disney.. there is no required understanding of the risk, those are undertaken by the provider. But as trained (and when we do BOW, we are taught to dive within our training) divers.. we SHOULD dive withing our training and physical limits.. THAT is not a dive ops responsibility!!! That is OURS PERSONALLY. It IS the dive ops' responsibility to advise the level of experience and physical fitness required for the dive... but a dive op cannot control a "advanced diver" trying to do a deep wreck penetration with out proper equipment and training. I am ASSUMING that the operation properly did briefings topside.

I must admit to having an issue with a dive op taking divers to a serious dive without having a divemaster down. The keys operations are in my mind lax on that. Sure, do Pennycamp or Alligator or whatever.. but to do the Duane, Bibb, Spigle, or Eagle??? You better know what MIGHT be! and be experienced and trained to deal with it!



If they didn't advise properly or have a pro down? Justifliably screwed.



This is a most unfortunate thing.. and I'll bet that it was not the op's fault..

this is the reason I prefer to dive in the keys. I don't need or want a baysitter down there with me. The ops are not lax. If you don't like to dive without one then hire one or don't go. If a diver is unsure if he can do the dive then he should not. It would be better for all concerned if some of the people in the water now would stay out.
 
You know, the biggest lesson I take away from this, and Donathan's death, is that I hope I will always be scared of certain things underwater. I think fear is useful; it makes you careful, and keeps you conservative. As I look forward to getting some cave training, I need to remember that it's good to be a little scared.

During my Rec Triox class last weekend, I thought again and again, as I was listening to the instructor, that one of the keynotes of GUE is that they are risk averse -- Which is a strange thing to say about an organization that does the dives they do. But they are powerfully risk averse, which is why they developed the system them have, and why it is so very conservative compared with other systems in some places.

I'd just as soon stay risk-averse. Neither do I want to die in a cave, nor do I want to put somebody else at risk to recover my body. I'll stay scared, thank you.
 
When I heard about this I was completely sick to my stomach. You hear about these kinds of things happening that something goes awry and someone dies but when I was just there 2 weeks ago! I feel so sorry for their family. Diving is fun and you just don't think that it can happen. I wish this never have happened.
 
Like RICK MURCHISON posted from the news release of Monroe County Sheriff's Office

*The men had no dive reels with them to show them the way out of the wreck. Dive reels are spools of line which are attached at the entrance to the dive. The divers let out line as they progress and, thus, are able to find their way out again.*

IF YOU DIVE WITHOUT DIVE REELS (ROPES) IT MAY NOT BE TODAY, TOMORROW, MONTHS OR YEARS FROM NOW BUT EXPERIENCE OR NOT IT WILL GET YOU SOMEDAY I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN TO THE BEST! FOR ALL YOU * COCKY / THINK YOU SO EXPERIENCE DIVERS* TAKE THIS AS A LESSON ALWAYS ALWAYS USE DIVE REELS!

Learning from others mistakes will save your own ***!

Always descending,
C.H.
 
The point is the divers didn't use any dive reels (as from what the Monroe County Sheriff's Office said) and to me that is 80% cause of death, who do you sue for not bring any dive reels? They all should have KNOWN! I MEAN FREAKING COMMON SENSE helllo? not to be outgoing but what is the deal with that?

Always descending,
C.H.
 
Wake up, we train and practice, we except the risk, and by the numbers, when we get stupid, don't plan, don't practice and don't learn, we die, it's a risk, we acknowledge it, we dive,
 
I would like to take a moment to thank Stephen Frinke for the factual update on the incident. My heart goes out to the families of the men lost, and to the dive community in Key Largo. I know the impact of such a tragedy effects everyone in small island communities.
 

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