SparticleBrane
Contributor
What does them being instructors have anything to do with it? Just being an open water instructor doesn't qualify you to dive in overhead environments.rscalzo:
3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove
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Even being a qualified "wreck diver" doesn't mean anything either. What happened to Steven Donathan? (If you don't know... google him)SparticleBrane:
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I know this didnt surprise you.....this happens all the time on here....
daniel f aleman
Contributor
That which happened to Donathan, and likely to those "diving instructors" who perished on the Spiegel Grove, will happen again - and we all know why... Unless one is trained in overhead diving, stay the HELL out.
daniel f aleman:
Donathan's demise apparently wasn't from a lack of training, right?
CDNN article:
http://tinyurl.com/32z9qu
Dave C
SparticleBrane
Contributor
"Qualified" and "overconfident" are not the same thing.howarde:
The point is. Even those who are qualified can still perish.SparticleBrane:
Entering a wreck IS DANGEROUS... even for those prepared for and who accept the danger. No matter how prepared you are... something can happen, even to the most qualified and experienced diver, there are variables that can change the equation.
Sure we can learn how to mitigate the danger, and keep it to a minimum, and increase our chances for survival...
BUT even for the utmost master; people are human, and mistakes can happen.
dumpsterDiver
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I didn't read all the posts and I find it hard to blame the guy driving the boat for what people do underwater, HOWEVER if these guys were diving single 80 tanks with "stage" bottles left outside, it is quite obvious that the operator knew what they were planning on doing. If they didn't have the appropriate CERTIFICATIONS and they had no redundancy inside the wreck (other than buddies) I personally think that the operator MIGHT have some liability in this wacky country we live in.
Boatlawyer
Contributor
Dive Right In Scuba:I know this didnt surprise you.....this happens all the time on here....
Happens in every sport in which someone perishes. For the same reason. It's a variation of whistling past the graveyard. If we can identify the "mistake" that was made, there is the implication that it could have been avoided, and that, we, with our superior know how, would not have made that mistake and are thus somehow safe from the same fate.
I find these threads useful, though, and often make modifications in my equipment or practice based on problems reported in accidents and incidents. So, the speculation does have it's uses.
Stephen Frink
New
From Monroe County Sheriff's Department, Saturday evening:
Monroe County Sheriff's Office
Daily Crime and Information Report
March 17, 2007 - 6:45 p.m.
Detectives investigate deaths
Key Largo, Fla. - Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives are investigating the deaths of three divers who entered the wreck of the Spiegel Grove Friday and never came out.
Lead Detective Mark Coleman says he has discovered some reasons why this terrible tragedy may have occurred, besides the fact that the men were diving in an area of the ship not intended for such forays.
According to Detective Coleman:
The men, all experienced divers, did not have a dive plan. A dive plan, he says, is crucial in order to make sure all participants in the dive know what to expect, and to make sure the divers are properly prepared for the coming dive.
The men had no dive reels with them to show them the way out of the wreck. Dive reels are spools of line which are attached at the entrance to the dive. The divers let out line as they progress and, thus, are able to find their way out again.
The men did not take enough dive tanks with them to complete the dive. Normally, according to Detective Coleman, divers planning an extensive penetration dive such as this one take down "stage tanks" which are staged all along the dive route so they have new tanks when they run low on air. These divers had several stage tanks with them, but they were staged much higher in the vessel, and closer to the entrance, than their bodies were found. They only carried single tanks with them. Had they had a safety line, they may have been able to find their way back to the tanks.
Detective Coleman said when he interviewed Howard Spralter, the lone survivor of the group, he admitted they did not take all the safety precautions they should have to complete the dive.
"The divers who went in to recover the bodies said this portion of the ship has large amounts of silt built up inside," said Detective Coleman. "It doesn't take very much movement to kick that silt up and cause problems with your ability to see. Without a line to follow out, and with lots of silt in the water, it would have been virtually impossible for them to find their way out of the wreck," he said.
The Spiegel Grove is a popular dive spot off of Key Largo. The upper portions of the ship have many areas that have been prepared specifically for penetration dives with holes cut for ingress and egress, and markings on the walls showing clearly which ways to go. The portion of the ship these divers were in were lower down, where all the entrances were sealed to prevent entrance. It is unknown how the entrance they used was opened, but it was not intended for use as an entrance to the wreck.
The men's bodies have been transported to Key West and autopsies will be performed to determine the cause of their deaths. Assisting in the body recovery today was Key Largo Fire/Rescue, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and the United States Coast Guard.
Monroe County Sheriff's Office
Daily Crime and Information Report
March 17, 2007 - 6:45 p.m.
Detectives investigate deaths
Key Largo, Fla. - Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives are investigating the deaths of three divers who entered the wreck of the Spiegel Grove Friday and never came out.
Lead Detective Mark Coleman says he has discovered some reasons why this terrible tragedy may have occurred, besides the fact that the men were diving in an area of the ship not intended for such forays.
According to Detective Coleman:
The men, all experienced divers, did not have a dive plan. A dive plan, he says, is crucial in order to make sure all participants in the dive know what to expect, and to make sure the divers are properly prepared for the coming dive.
The men had no dive reels with them to show them the way out of the wreck. Dive reels are spools of line which are attached at the entrance to the dive. The divers let out line as they progress and, thus, are able to find their way out again.
The men did not take enough dive tanks with them to complete the dive. Normally, according to Detective Coleman, divers planning an extensive penetration dive such as this one take down "stage tanks" which are staged all along the dive route so they have new tanks when they run low on air. These divers had several stage tanks with them, but they were staged much higher in the vessel, and closer to the entrance, than their bodies were found. They only carried single tanks with them. Had they had a safety line, they may have been able to find their way back to the tanks.
Detective Coleman said when he interviewed Howard Spralter, the lone survivor of the group, he admitted they did not take all the safety precautions they should have to complete the dive.
"The divers who went in to recover the bodies said this portion of the ship has large amounts of silt built up inside," said Detective Coleman. "It doesn't take very much movement to kick that silt up and cause problems with your ability to see. Without a line to follow out, and with lots of silt in the water, it would have been virtually impossible for them to find their way out of the wreck," he said.
The Spiegel Grove is a popular dive spot off of Key Largo. The upper portions of the ship have many areas that have been prepared specifically for penetration dives with holes cut for ingress and egress, and markings on the walls showing clearly which ways to go. The portion of the ship these divers were in were lower down, where all the entrances were sealed to prevent entrance. It is unknown how the entrance they used was opened, but it was not intended for use as an entrance to the wreck.
The men's bodies have been transported to Key West and autopsies will be performed to determine the cause of their deaths. Assisting in the body recovery today was Key Largo Fire/Rescue, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and the United States Coast Guard.
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