200' on air for 5 min bottom time?

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Wayne -- Thank you.

Now, what about "un-adaptation" -- does it occur too or is it "like riding a bicycle" -- once learned (experienced), forever there?
 
As mentioned above, sometimes helium is not easy to get or an option without driving hundreds of miles to find it. So far I've seen about 70% of this thread talk about and have experience in deep air. 100% of these 70% have come back to comment. Is deep air really that bad to 200'? Obviously times have changed and our knowledge of this sport has improved leaps and bounds over the last 40 years. How many times will we have to argue about this coming to no end or successful conclusion? DCBC has stated what most already know and his experience outweighs most of us on the forum. Deep air will always be around as a way of diving as will Cave, Wreck, Ocean, and Lake divers.
I remember my dives in Lake Huron to 180'. The first dive one week I was as alert as I thought I could be. The second dive a week later I could tell I was impaired beyond safety and I went back up at 150'. Third dive I did things went wrong and my mind set went from calm to darn near panic caused paranoia. My training kicked in, I cut my dive short and still did a full deco. So far I've been lucky with deep air and having no trimix training, but deco gases have sure made my dives much easier to stand.
 
Is deep air really that bad to 200'?
I remember my dives in Lake Huron to 180'. The first dive one week I was as alert as I thought I could be. The second dive a week later I could tell I was impaired beyond safety and I went back up at 150'. Third dive I did things went wrong and my mind set went from calm to darn near panic caused paranoia. My training kicked in, I cut my dive short and still did a full deco.

Seems like you answered the question to me. Personally I don't want to be in a paranoia / panic situation 180' from the surface.
 
Seems like you answered the question to me. Personally I don't want to be in a paranoia / panic situation 180' from the surface.
That was my own psychological and attitude that causes the situation not the air. Confidenence is key in helping narcosis migitate. Go down afraid and paranoid, then you wont have avoid dive. Dive with caution you will not have fun, but your mental alert would be at top. Or like myself study what I am doing, and then make a good plan and follow that plan in happy confidence.
 
That was my own psychological and attitude that causes the situation not the air. Confidenence is key in helping narcosis migitate. Go down afraid and paranoid, then you wont have avoid dive. Dive with caution you will not have fun, but your mental alert would be at top. Or like myself study what I am doing, and then make a good plan and follow that plan in happy confidence.
You know how big of a contradiction this whole thread is?
Yes, I agree that your physiology may have contributed and your attitude definetly did, but ruling out the breathing gas is pretty damn nonchalant. Its like saying my fringed nerves after the binge drinking was caused by not remembering what I did and not the alcohol..
Then you go on and say you make a good plan and follow that plan. Then why the hell did you put yourself in a position where you nearly freak out in the first place? That does NOT sound like good planning, although the recovery was obviously good given youre still here.
 
Wayne -- Thank you.

Now, what about "un-adaptation" -- does it occur too or is it "like riding a bicycle" -- once learned (experienced), forever there?

Peter "un-adaptation" occurs, however not in the same way as adaptation. It is like riding a bicycle in some ways. If someone hasn't ridden in a couple of years, they will likely still be able to ride, but not as well as they once did. I believe that the adaptation process is primarily mental attitude/state-of-mind. There are physical properties such as cold, exertion, etc., that affect narcosis, yet we believe that non-physical factors like light also have an affect. If everything was physical, it would be more likely that a person would react in a similar way under repeated exposures. We know that this is not the case, as the same person can react differently to narcosis at different times. This isn't scientifically understood, so I can only speak to the reaction and not the cause.

New Diver's experiencing narcosis are understandably anxious and in some cases fearful. Experienced Divers often have a different attitude. In the Chamber, the inexperienced are taken unawares. They tend to go with the flow and make no attempt to resist what they are feeling. When subjects leave the Chamber, it's typical to hear someone say "Hey man, that was a blast! What a great time," or "That's a good reason to learn to dive!" They don't really have a clue about the danger that exists to the Diver.

When I undertake a Deep-Air Dive (dry or wet), I put-on my game face. I do the same thing when piloting a CCR, or when entering a Cave or Wreck (regardless of the breathing mixture being used). It's all business. I approach Deep-Air as a challenge to overcome in a similar way. I don't allow myself to have 'fun' until the dive is completed. Then I can relax and go over everything in my mind. I survived the experience.

Some people may say "Why do it?" Why dive a Cave, Wreck, Iceberg, or other overhead environment? In-fact why dive at all? Why climb a mountain, sky dive, fly an airplane, or ski a triple diamond run? All are an increased risk, but they have been part of my life and help define who I am. There are worse things than dieing doing what you love to do. I certainly don't want that outcome, but if that's the way it has to be, I'm good with that. I'd hazard to say that most of us on SB have a passion for life; that's why we dive in the first-place isn't it?

For those interested in diving Deep-Air: get trained, get experience and get diving. Remember to tread slowly and be vigilant. Narcosis is deceptive and it awaits the unwary...

"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins."
Benjamin Franklin
 
You know how big of a contradiction this whole thread is?
Yes, I agree that your physiology may have contributed and your attitude definetly did, but ruling out the breathing gas is pretty damn nonchalant. Its like saying my fringed nerves after the binge drinking was caused by not remembering what I did and not the alcohol..

Why do people compare this to binge drinking, or drinking at all? It was nothing like that. I could be diving any gas at any depth and still lose whether I'm at 25' in pitch black water looking for a suicide or murder victim, or when I'm in 200' down crystal clear water. The dive plan was made and followed to a T despite the circumstances. You do not dive with fear or a debilitating nervousness, then there is no point in making the dive because it's not fun anymore. All the other I've been below 150' I was fine and happy and once again followed the plan to a T.
 
Lets say I am diving to 200' on air and descend at 50 fpm (4 min) and then stay down for 5 min before ascending. At the moment I ascend what would my ceiling be?

(I assume 4 min at 50 fpm down then 5 min BT would put me into deco)

Thanks
Using vplanner at the +2 setting your first stop (ceiling) starts at 60 ft. If you lag by three mins at depth then your ceiling becomes 80ft.
Depth Stop Run
Des 200 - 4:00
Lvl 200 5:00 9:00 ppO2 1.48
Stp 60 0:30 14:10
Stp 50 1:50 16:00
Stp 40 1:50 17:50
Stp 30 2:40 20:30
Stp 20 3:40 24:10
Stp 10 6:40 30:50
Sfc - - 31:10 21 - -​




Dive# 1, VPM-B +2
Elevation = 0 ft
CNS = 8%
OTU's = 17
Gas 21 = 71 cuft.
Decozone start = 100 ft
 
Last edited:
Using vplanner at the +2 setting your first stop (ceiling) starts at 60 ft. If you lag by three mins at depth then your ceiling becomes 80ft.
Depth Stop Run
Des 200 - 4:00
Lvl 200 5:00 9:00 ppO2 1.48
Stp 60 0:30 14:10
Stp 50 1:50 16:00
Stp 40 1:50 17:50
Stp 30 2:40 20:30
Stp 20 3:40 24:10
Stp 10 6:40 30:50
Sfc - - 31:10 21 - -​




Dive# 1, VPM-B +2
Elevation = 0 ft
CNS = 8%
OTU's = 17
Gas 21 = 71 cuft.
Decozone start = 100 ft
Ratio Deco Method had the hard stops begin at 100'/30m, linearly for one minute every 10'/3m to 20'/6m, and then a slow 3fpm/1mpm ascent to the surface. (Slightly different deco profile shaping) see link back:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/455535-200-air-5-min-bottom-time-4.html#post6759370
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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