13 things that confuse the smartest people on Earth.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

H2Andy:
could you name one?

we do have theories that can't really be proven, only disproven.

once they are disproven, hopefully a more accurate one can take its place.

Actually, a law of physics does not have to be proven beyond a doubt. They are assumed true because of a lack of repeatable contradicting observations (among other things).

Newton's law of gravity became law, and is still considered law, even though Einstein observed that it doesn't always hold true.

I'm just saying that recent observations seem to go against Einstein's 'laws' and we might be more open-minded if we realized they are just mathematical representations of physical observations.
 
i don't see where we're disagreeing, so i'll shut up

though i will say that is common knowledge that Eistein updated Newtonian
physics, and that even that doesn't work at the quantum level, so we
ended up with quantum physics

but i think of these things as "models" to understand the universe, not
100% accurate explanations. i personally feel that the term "law"
is a misnomer (though i am aware that the term is applied).
but as far as we know, gravity works as described, the gravitaitonal
constant works as described, and we can fly rockets to the moon
using our understanding of gravity... so it's pretty set in stone.

here's a definition of a law:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, the law of thermodynamics, and Hook’s law of elasticity.


http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

(thank god i decided to shut up)
 
H2Andy:
i don't see where we're disagreeing, so i'll shut up

Really? What’s your profession again? :wink:

H2Andy:
though i will say...

That’s more like it...

H2Andy:
but i think of these things as "models" to understand the universe, not
100% accurate explanations. i personally feel that the term "law"
is a misnomer.

You know, that’s exactly what I was trying to say in the first place. Your eloquence must serve you well.

A jab and a complement. Did I balance ‘em well enough?
 
simbrooks:
Can you rent it at blockbuster?
I rented it at a little place in High Springs last weekend, so I'm sure it's at Blockbuster...
 
Green_Manelishi:
And therein lies the failure of the (stated too frequently as fact) theory of macro-evolution. It is not observable nor has it been observed, nor can it be tested. However, when that obstacle is mentioned then hopeful monsters are hatched to explain the lack of fossil evidence, OR micro-evolution (i.e. adaptation within a group or kind) is proposed as proof of macro-evolution (a kind morphing over time into a completely different kind).

I'd also suggest that because "the law of evolution" lacks any real evidence it has been decided that gravity is now a theory despite that fact that it works and can be tested as well as observed.



I see a lot of talk about "proving a theory" form people who do not understand science.

No theory can be proven. The basis of science is to disprove things. That is why the basis of any scientific theory is that it be falsifiable. You must be able to prove it wrong by experiment. If a statement is not at least capable of being proven wrong by an experiment, then it is not a scientific statement. The key word here is capable; it doesn't matter whether the statement has been proven wrong yet or not.

For example, the statement "The Tooth Fairy doesn't exist." can be falsified (by pointing her out). It is therefore a "scientific" statement. If someone can point out the tooth fairy the statement is proven false. The fact that nobody has done so means the statement is verified. That doesn't mean the statement is fact, but just that it is the best model of the world we have on the subject. It fits all available evidence. But the statement cannot be proven.

However, the statement "The Tooth Fairy replaced my tooth with a dollar." is not capable of being falsified. Ever. Just because you cannot point her out doesn't mean it is false. Perhaps she is hiding. Perhaps she lives on the moon. Perhaps underground. Perhaps that morey eel you saw last weekend is the tooth fairy in disguise. Perhaps she did it invisibly. Just because nobody saw her means nothing. The statement isn't a scientific one.

Do you see the difference?

Similarly, "God doesn't exist" is a scientific statement. It is capable of being proven false.
"God did it" is not capable to being a scientific statement.

It all lies in the capability of being falsified by the right test.

Now, onto evolution. The statement that "life forms evolved from older, simpler forms" is capable of being disproven, thus it is scientific. It has not been disproven, and fits all available evidence of fossils, biochemistry, and the like. It is a scientific concept that has withstood all tests. It is considered verified because there has been no evidence to disprove it.

"God did it" is not a scientific statement, because you can't falsify it. It is not possible for any evidence to not fit the nebulous idea of "God did it." That is why the whole Intelligent Design idea isn't science, and never will be.

Science is a tool to find natural explanations for natural phenomena. God, the very concept of which is supernatural, does not fit within that paradigm. (Ack, did he actually use the word paradigm in this discussion? :crafty: ) "God" is not capable of being scientific, nor is science capable of addressing "God".

You might as well use economics to explain chemistry, or a hammer to turn a screw.


This reminds me about a conversation with a neighbor about crop circles.

She were sure that aliens did crop circles - traveling across the universe only to set down on our little planet and doodle in a wheat field in England.

I pointed out that quite a few have been shown to be man-made, and in fact there are videotapes showing how the pranksters did their circles.

The answer was "Well, they made those circles, but what about the rest? Aliens surely made those."

I countered that aliens must have built her house. She looked at me oddly and asked why I thought that. I pointed to the half-built house across the street, with the construction workers toiling away, and said "Well, we see those guys over there building that house, but yours was built before you moved here. Since you didn't see people doing it, it must have been built by aliens."

There comes a point to just roll your eyes and walk away.
 
I wish we could find the reality to this this paradox.

Sock Gnomes

Sock gnomes are unexplained creatures that pilfer socks. The loss of which only becomes aparent at the exact instant that one really really needs to find them. Sock gnomes are related to the Underpants Gnomes. The archenemy of the sock gnomes is the Sock Goblin. I can't find any matching pairs of socks... the bloody sock gnomes have been at it again!
 
radinator:
However, the statement "The Tooth Fairy replaced my tooth with a dollar." is not capable of being falsified. Ever.

Not true at all. I personally replaced your tooth with the dollar and I am not a fairy. I just happen to like looking under peoples pillows in the middle of the night and have a lot of disposable income in the form of dollar bills. Tadaaa.

Joe
 
mempilot:
I wish we could find the reality to this this paradox.

Sock Gnomes

Sock gnomes are unexplained creatures that pilfer socks. The loss of which only becomes aparent at the exact instant that one really really needs to find them. Sock gnomes are related to the Underpants Gnomes. The archenemy of the sock gnomes is the Sock Goblin. I can find any matching pairs of socks... the bloody sock gnomes have been at it again!

I explained all of this years ago.
When a sock disappears from the drier it is because it has evolved into one of the many extra clothes hangers in the hall closet. When you are looking for a hanger and can't find one it is because they have again evolved and are now keys on your keyring for which you have no lock. 1 sock is capable of producing many hangers but it takes many hangers to produce 1 useless key. I am currently missing 3 socks, have no hangers and have 4 surplus keys which open nothing I own. It's all really very simple. :)

Joe
 
Sideband:
Not true at all. I personally replaced your tooth with the dollar and I am not a fairy. I just happen to like looking under peoples pillows in the middle of the night and have a lot of disposable income in the form of dollar bills. Tadaaa.

Joe

So prove you are not the tooth fairy. You can't. Tadaa.

Or prove that the tooth fairy, in her power, didn't influence you to do it. You were merely acting as her agent.

You see my point? It's not capable of being falsified.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom