12 boys lost in flooded Thai cave

[UFOrb]

Thailand cave rescue: Elon Musk offers Boring Company services to help trapped boys - live

Elon Musk is offering help. Hopefully it will be of some use??

 

[kelemvor]

This video summarizes the situation to date:

Thanks for posting that. It seems I badly misunderstood some critical things. For example, previous news had said the submerged portion of the cave was only 15 meters long. Perhaps that discrepancy is part of the reason many were thinking the "dive them out" option was more feasible.

 

[Dan]

15% is the O2 level in the cave that has since promted actions to boost the O2 level.
No one has suggested 15% is OK/healthy/adequate.

I saw 15% cited by Scuba Diver magazine (on FB), also by BBC
Diver dies in Thailand cave rescue attempt
and CNN
Thai cave rescuers face race against time as oxygen levels drop - CNN

Thanks for the links. Since the number was provided by Thai Navy SEAL chief Rear Adm. Aphakorn Yookongkaew, it must have been measured & monitored in the chamber where the boys are.

It’s quite possible with the increasing number of people in there & increasing activities there, the oxygen consumption goes up beyond the ventilation rate from some of the cracks above the chamber.

This time CNN uses the right word: “The 38-year-old ran out of air while underwater, an official said.”, not run out of oxygen.

 

[Dan]

Thanks for posting that. It seems I badly misunderstood some critical things. For example, previous news had said the submerged portion of the cave was only 15 meters long. Perhaps that discrepancy is part of the reason many were thinking the "dive them out" option was more feasible.

It’ll be worsening by the weekend as they predict more rains to come pouring down the area.

 

[MikeyIdea]

Interesting pictures from one group working on the scene, 35 pictures - TheChang Changkwanyuen
Blue Label Diving (in the pictures) is one tech diving company that have their best guys up there, Koh Tao Tech Divers do too, and many others
xdeep arranged side mount systems, deserves recognition Vsevolod Korobov

 

[KevinNM]

Does anyone know where the 15% is from?

According to 04/02/2007 - Clarification of OSHA's requirement for breathing air to have at least 19.5 percent oxygen content. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration
“Concentrations of 12 to 16 percent oxygen cause tachypnea (increased breathing rates), tachycardia (accelerated heartbeat), and impaired attention, thinking, and coordination (e.g., Ex. 25-4), even in people who are resting.”

That’s not a good condition to be taken out on a FFM & drag out of the tunnel, is it?

the critical issue is how many oxygen molecules you breath with each breath. The partial pressure of O2. That’s why at great depth you can live fine on very low O2 percentages, like 2 or 3%. People at high altitude can operate, once acclimated, at fairly low O2 partial pressures. If I turn my shearwater on in my living room set to air it alarms about low O2 partial pressure as I live at like 6500 feet. Once you reach about 8000 meters, at about 35% of atmospheric pressure, even the best acclimated people can’t operate for long in what is called the death zone.

 

[KevinNM]

Thanks for posting that. It seems I badly misunderstood some critical things. For example, previous news had said the submerged portion of the cave was only 15 meters long. Perhaps that discrepancy is part of the reason many were thinking the "dive them out" option was more feasible.

There are just not any good answers unless the water levels drop. Drilling would take weeks of preparation to build a road and precisely locate the kids. And very damn expensive. Staying there has the threat that it might fully flood, plus months in a cave has other issues. Swimming out has pretty obvious threats, as it is not easy even for experts.

 

[Rhone Man]

One of the rescue divers died yesterday. It was never likely that this situation would end without tragedy, and now we have had the first. Let us hope that there won't be many more.

 

[SailorJoe]

Thailand cave rescue: Elon Musk offers Boring Company services to help trapped boys - live

Elon Musk is offering help. Hopefully it will be of some use??

Elon has proposed a 1M inflatable tube to get through the tight sections.

"Maybe worth trying: insert a 1m diameter nylon tube (or shorter set of tubes for most difficult sections) through cave network & inflate with air like a bouncy castle. Should create an air tunnel underwater against cave roof & auto-conform to odd shapes like the 70cm hole"

Oddly enough, this sounds like what I mentioned a couple of days ago. It would need to be rigid enough to withstand water pressure and compression around tight spots, but overall strong enough to do the job. Question is: How long would it take to make it.

Elon is good at rapid prototyping. Hopefully he can collaborate with these chaps. I believe such a device will work provided it remains sufficiently parallel with the strong underwater currents. It will need to be extended in length of course and perhaps be made stronger and use a higher pressure air pump.

http://www.design4disaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/air_tube.jpg
​

BTW by day my day job is a design consultant with Siemens PLM. Elon is one of our clients. Glad to see he is trying to help.

 

[Dan]

There are just not any good answers unless the water levels drop. Drilling would take weeks of preparation to build a road and precisely locate the kids. And very damn expensive. Staying there has the threat that it might fully flood, plus months in a cave has other issues. Swimming out has pretty obvious threats, as it is not easy even for experts.

The last week of June was pretty wet week with >2” of rainfall. The 1st week of July was good for the rescuers with ~ 1/2” rainfall. Hopefully the weather continues in their favor.