12 boys lost in flooded Thai cave

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I wish the media would get the terminology correct, with many incorrect references to oxygen tanks, breathing oxygen, running out of oxygen etc.

You & @Kay Dee may just have to accept the media terminology for SCUBA air tank. At least we all know what they meant.

The only real oxygen bottles that I see in the news there are those non-SCUBA, long, painted green labeled "oxygen" bottles.
 
With all the rumor about 15% oxygen in some of the places in the cave, how hard is it to bring oxygen analyzer and monitor the air quality in where the boys are (the most populated chamber)?
 
As you say, a hero he was! RIP!!

But again, as I mentioned earlier, here is an example of the ambivalence left when a reporter uses (misuses?) the term 'oxygen'. That is, does he really mean oxygen or does he simply mean air? That is, did he run out of air whilst diving (or die from a health related issue whilst underwater), or did he die from lack of oxygen in a (small) enclosed chamber in the cave ?

From the little I have read it is whilst actually underwater diving, presumably, repeat presumably, from running out of air, but please don't hesitate - as I know you won't - to correct me if I'm wrong.

PS. I note in one of the photos from one of the newspapers what seems to be a pile of what we Down Under would call (large) 'G' size cylinders of actual Oxygen stacked outside they cave. Has there been any talk, now that O2 levels are dropping in the boys chamber, of actually pumping O2 into the chamber - or even just taking smaller (scuba size) cylinders in for them to breathe from? As yes, with all the 'new' folks coming / going / staying in that chamber the O2 level must certainly be dropping and the Co2 level rising.

Unfortunately this operation is getting more hazardous by the day (hour?) and the options seem to be fast running out.

This article the reporters use the word air, but the commander of the SEALS says oxygen tank.
Diver dies while trying to help save soccer team trapped in Thai cave


Saman Kunan, 38, fell unconscious underwater and died around 1 a.m. local time as he attempted to return from placing air tanks deep inside the underground complex. A fellow diver tried to revive him but was unsuccessful.
"The conditions in the cave are tough," Admiral Apakorn Yuukongkaew, commander of the SEALs unit, told reporters on Friday.
"Once he placed the oxygen tanks he became unconscious on his way back. His buddy tried to administer first aid, when there was no response he tried to move him," Apakorn added.
So it doesn't say anything about the diver being out of air.


The article also refers to filling the cave up with oxygen, so yes- I think they have talked about pumping O2 into the chamber.



I am very sad for the loss of the rescue diver. A friend was part of a group, though not with the ones who needed to be rescued, that had to be rescued from a non-diving situation- and the death of a rescuer haunts her. Knowing that happened is going to be very hard on these boys (presumably they will not find out until they get out.) I pray they get out safely.
 
With all the rumor about 15% oxygen in some of the places in the cave, how hard is it to bring oxygen analyzer and monitor the air quality in where the boys are (the most populated chamber)?

I think moving anything in and out of that cave is hard. Surely they've done that though, because where else would the number 15% come from?



(Thanks to the poster who showed the July warning sign on the cave entrance.)
 
Very sad to learn this late last night. :( Incredible team effort. He gave all. RIP
 
I think moving anything in and out of that cave is hard. Surely they've done that though, because where else would the number 15% come from?...

Does anyone know where the 15% is from?

According to 04/02/2007 - Clarification of OSHA's requirement for breathing air to have at least 19.5 percent oxygen content. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration
“Concentrations of 12 to 16 percent oxygen cause tachypnea (increased breathing rates), tachycardia (accelerated heartbeat), and impaired attention, thinking, and coordination (e.g., Ex. 25-4), even in people who are resting.”

That’s not a good condition to be taken out on a FFM & drag out of the tunnel, is it?
 
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Does anyone know where the 15% is from?

According to 04/02/2007 - Clarification of OSHA's requirement for breathing air to have at least 19.5 percent oxygen content. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration
“Concentrations of 12 to 16 percent oxygen cause tachypnea (increased breathing rates), tachycardia (accelerated heartbeat), and impaired attention, thinking, and coordination (e.g., Ex. 25-4), even in people who are resting.”

That’s not a good condition to be taken out on a FFM & drag out of the tunnel, is it?

15% is the O2 level in the cave that has since promted actions to boost the O2 level.
No one has suggested 15% is OK/healthy/adequate.

I saw 15% cited by Scuba Diver magazine (on FB), also by BBC
Diver dies in Thailand cave rescue attempt
and CNN
Thai cave rescuers face race against time as oxygen levels drop - CNN
 
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Please read the following in the knowledge I'm not, do not claim to be, nor have any ambition to be a cave diver.

The British cultural mentality will be to use the gear that works for that job, rather than the DIR method of "generally standardised" equipment.

Obviously it's benefitted from continuous development

View attachment 467760
Wookey Hole 1935 Penelope Powell (left) and Graham Balcombe (right)

In large caves, then then equipment will be similar or the same as other places, Rebreather, backmount twins or conventional side mount.

When it gets a bit tricky with lots of restrictions they favour the Explorer Harness
View attachment 467761

A simple and basic but robust SM harness.

Regulators favoured is the Poseidon Cyklon because it's built like a tank

View attachment 467762

On the Pictures of the UK Rescue team in Thailand you'll see them wearing the above gear

Wings are optional depending on the "gig" but are fitted in a way to make them quickly removable using fast equipment clips

(possibly called suicide clips in the US)

See here: no wings fitted

View attachment 467764
Bream Mines, Forest of Dean.


Not all caves are this big

View attachment 467765


And here is another real life example demonstration where "easily" removing the gear can be required

View attachment 467766

View attachment 467770



View attachment 467769

All images from www.farrworld.co.uk

EDIT: The term "easily" has been put in parenthesis as this is relative

Farrworld is run by Martyn Farr who is well known within the (UK) cave diving community and the author of a number of books on the subject

Nutters!! :wink:
But thank goodness for these guys, in this case, and many other cases.
Total respect for these brave people, and all the other people involved.

RIP Saman Kunan
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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