The untold part of the Thai cave rescue story (when egos collide)

[Underwater Tourist]

John and Rick (and the CDG guys) are expert sump divers and have probably done more exploration in difficult conditions than anyone else on the planet. Over decades!

In no way anybody is disputing that, nor saying that R&J are incompetent etc; their skill is the reason why they were called

they [R & J] don't spend their time bragging on youtube channels, blogs or constantly post/sell on facebook.

Neither do those two EU guys constantly post or sell on FB how they are the greatest on the planet
As far as I am aware, there is just this one documentary that talks about what they did, which pales in comparison to how many films/interviews there are featuring R&J. (I know R&J are invited, as opposed to organized those interviews)

I stopped watching and started skipping when he said his drysuit ripped and flodded and it was clear that the whole hour is him and his buddy... why do you think the pros rolled up in wetsuits and OC gear?

My guess, is because the EU guys were there first, they just grabbed what they are used to dive with, showed up, and decided to roll from there. Keep in mind they had zero clue what type of the cave it is etc.


I found it - for the lack of a better word - unjust that the contribution of the two EU guys who laid kilometres of exploration line, when the flow and conditions were so bad that even R&J stopped diving, were swept under the rug. And that R&J contributed to the said sweeping.

 

[berndo]

... were swept under the rug. And that R&J contributed to the said sweeping.

And you're basing this opinion on a one sided youtube video you found... that's why I said that this is how conspiracy theories get started.

The fact that those European guys were (as it appears) deliberately not credited at all by Rick and John is pretty disgusting

'The fact (you have no idea if it's a fact) ... not credited by Rick and John is pretty disgusting' (insulting towards them based upon a youtube video).

 

[Underwater Tourist]

And you're basing this opinion on a one sided youtube video you found... that's why I said that this is how conspiracy theories get started.

What does it matter if the information is on youtube, vimeo, or in a book?

The video gives their story, 99% of other Thai cave rescue videos give somebody else's story. So again, by your logic, every video/interview/film/movie that didn't include the story of the EU divers becomes just "some one sided youtube video" as you call it. That of course would include all the info about R&J achievements as just "some one sided youtube videos" that are here to start conspiracies. Clearly that logic doesnt make any sense

I asked specifically what are the claims that you think are incorrect and you didn't give an answer.

-Did the EU guys not lay the exploration line 99% of the way, when even R&J refused to dive?
-Were they not banned from the cave?
-Were they in fact credited, as opposed to discredited, for their work by R&J?
-Or maybe some other claims are incorrect?

Please don't deliberately throw away parts of quotes to make a point.

Yes, if indeed none of the claims that were made in the video can be refuted (by for example showing that John did in fact mention the EU divers in his book that was written prior to the video coming out), then it would be a pretty disgusting way of handling things. Note, that nobody calling R&J idiots or other names, its about how things were handled, as opposed to calling them names.


Not sure if you watched the video by now, but it looks like you think that all that there is happening is the two EU divers bashing and calling R&J idiots. That's not correct.

 

[berndo]

Please don't deliberately throw away parts of quotes to make a point.

The point I made was that you don't any of this to be a fact and that using the word 'disgusting' is out of line and insulting.

 

[Underwater Tourist]

It has been two pages of discussion now and you haven't answered any of the specific questions, and the only argument that you keep repeating is that the info in that video is garbage because its on youtube and one sided; even though I explained at the very beginning that your logic doesnt hold

Now you are saying that I am personally insulting R&J based on this line:
"The fact that those European guys were (as it appears) deliberately not credited at all by Rick and John is pretty disgusting"
Let me spell out the meaning:
"The fact that those European guys were (as it appears BASED ON THE INFO IN THE DOCUMENTARY) deliberately not credited at all by Rick and John is pretty disgusting". In other words, IF the claims about how things were handled (specifically crediting/discrediting) by R&J are correct, THEN what R&J did is pretty disgusting.

I asked which claims you disagree with and you said nothing. If you know something that can refute the documentary, then please share it, and then we can all start calling the EU divers garbage faqers for making/participating in such a BS documentary.

That is the point of sharing that documentary on a public scuba forum to begin with.

 

[Celt]

Well I watched it and unless they made up all the footage they sure did some marvellous work,

 

[cathal]

13 children saved from certain death and all that some people on this thread can do is bitch about someones ego apparently being bruised, that if true may have occurred some where in the middle of this attempt to save the lives of 13 kids........
Maybe before posting complaints, walk a mile in the shoes of the rescuers, both physically, mentally and emotionally. With hindsight, did they make mistakes, sure, we all do.

 

[Raimund]

Copy pasting the movie description that made me watch it.
Personally, I didn't know much about the effort - especially in detail - that the two Europeans divers put in.



Since the release of the documentary 13 LOST numerous complaints were made that the British divers Rick Stanton and John Volanthen in fact did credit Ben Reymenants and Maksym Polejaka for their essential contribution in finding the children, especially when Rick and John gave up on the rescue. Truth is Rick Stanton did not officially credit the two European divers until 3 years after the rescue (1 year after the release of 13 LOST) and John Volanthen never assigned any credit to their invaluable help. Even though in his book "Thirteen Lessons that Saved Thirteen Lives" John explained that one should always give credit where credit is due (Lesson 8). In fact John only discredited Ben Reymenants in his book and never even mentioned Maksym Polejaka once.

John made a ridiculous claim in his book that Ben, who is an exceedingly competent diver and taught high level diving courses for decades, pushed for an immediate extraction without making any plan whatsoever on the night the children were found. It's John's against Ben's word because nobody understood what was said between them on that night, not even Rick who sat right next to John during the argument. However one team, believe it or not, did push to dive the children out right there and then the same night. But it wasn't Ben, It was the British team, namely Vern Unsworth who told the New York Times that night that "It would be far better for the boys to be taken out immediately" Vern added " Because they have never dived before, they will have to learn very quickly, like in the next few hours."

Ben was also quoted in the same article, here is the link: https://archive.is/At3bm#selection-1271.0-1663.88

Ben was later blocked from entering the cave. To support this action, false claims were made that Ben had sold pictures and footage of the rescue and gave unauthorized interviews where he apparently had slagged off the British divers. But the truth is, when the British divers gave up on the rescue and the children, a reporter asked where the British divers were and Ben simply stated that he didn't know, but reports said that they had packed their bags and left. Master sergeant Derek Anderson, who is on record, said that Rick Stanton refused to work with Ben when he had returned just one day before the rescue and because the rescue team was already set with Rick as the leader and because the British team was under the wings of the US Air Force, they had no choice but to act upon Rick's request. Two Thai government officials also confirmed Derek Anderson's claim. Derek thought that Ben was a good diver and that all the accusations about Ben were conveyed to him by Rick but personally never made any negative observations of Ben.

When two leaders can not work together one has to leave, so simple is that and the USAF made a decision which Ben fully understood. But the way the ban of Ben was executed by hanging pamphlets with pictures grabbed from his facebook account can only be described as immoral, moverover the pamphlets looked more like a 19-century WANTED sign. Instead of handling the matter professionally and discreetly Gary Mitchel from the British Cave Rescue Council according to Rick Stanton approved flyers with Ben's pictures on it prohibiting him entrance into the cave. Knowing that hundreds if not thousands of cameras would pick up on it, the flyers were distributed all around the cave site and Chiang Rai airport. Of course the hungry media reported on it and caused irreversible damage to Ben's character. Even Rick Stanton personally called Gary Mitchel’s act unprofessional, unfair and harsh. Others just called it disgusting.

During the production of the documentary 13 LOST I received an email from Rick Stanton, leader of the British rescue divers, facilitated by Ben Svasti, a liaison for the British divers. Rick Stanton's email, containing false accusations/assumptions, was seemingly aimed to influence my project and discredit Ben Reymenants. I refuted these accusations/assumptions and asked for evidence, but neither Stanton nor Ben Svasti have responded yet. Here is the email, along with my response to Rick Stanton (Ben Reymenants should not be confused with Ben Svasti): drive.google.com/file/d/1U2zWN13lAbp0qsWX6iCXUQbH25fXj2ea/view

 

[Raimund]

A well made film would have included more than the very one sided story of one guy and his buddy. This is how conspiracy theories get started... with one 'well made' film.
Edit: Couldn't sit through it.

I invited Rick Stanton to be in the documentary but he rejected. Here is an email Rick sent to me via Ben Svasti, containing false accusations/assumptions, that was seemingly aimed to influence my project and discredit Ben Reymenants.

Here is the email, along with my response to Rick Stanton (Ben Reymenants should not be confused with Ben Svasti): drive.google.com/file/d/1U2zWN13lAbp0qsWX6iCXUQbH25fXj2ea/view

 

[happy-diver]

Mate I post what I post because that's what I want to post, and educating is just what I like to do too
Spending time being super detective, outraged with lying and squabbling, who cares what others do
I would be better served watching a soap with girls in bikinis or walking across the road to the beach

nothing to do