Thank you for sharing information about your dive with the Forum. I am sure that a lot of divers have learned from reading about your experience. Based on the download of your dive profile, it looks like you ascended from about 82' to the surface in 30 seconds. Obviously, that is a very fast ascent rate. I am glad that you were not hurt. Thanks again for contributing to the Forum.
100% Free flow at 135Ft and 41F water
- Thread starter MasterGoa
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OP
MasterGoa
Contributor
Now that it is behind me, I must say I feel stupid for not just
reaching over my sholder and closing my bottle, which I have not many times
before, for practice.
The steps I have written down are as follows:
Blow 2nd stage out of mouth to prevent air pressure pushing water
in the lungs. Believe you me, that was not a good feeling.
While pushing finger in 2nd stage outlet with left arm, use right
arm close bottle and breath using vavle cycles.
Either over the shoulder or by taking off BC.
Slowly ascend while observing if ice has formed
on the first stage.
If so, borrow air from BC to let 1st stage warm up.
As this happens, take time to slowly agitate the 2nd stage
so it warms up as well.
If free flow does not secede, valve cycle to surface while observing
safe ascend practices.This would be true in the event of a blown 1st stage.
This plan assume a single bottle in a master-buddy regulator config.
Pony bottle is extra.
Any opinions welcome.
MG
reaching over my sholder and closing my bottle, which I have not many times
before, for practice.
The steps I have written down are as follows:
Blow 2nd stage out of mouth to prevent air pressure pushing water
in the lungs. Believe you me, that was not a good feeling.
While pushing finger in 2nd stage outlet with left arm, use right
arm close bottle and breath using vavle cycles.
Either over the shoulder or by taking off BC.
Slowly ascend while observing if ice has formed
on the first stage.
If so, borrow air from BC to let 1st stage warm up.
As this happens, take time to slowly agitate the 2nd stage
so it warms up as well.
If free flow does not secede, valve cycle to surface while observing
safe ascend practices.This would be true in the event of a blown 1st stage.
This plan assume a single bottle in a master-buddy regulator config.
Pony bottle is extra.
Any opinions welcome.
MG
Scrap everything above "pony bottle is extra"
Switch to the pony and shut down the freeflowing reg - it is not going to thaw if you are using it intermittently. Simple is always better when things go badly wrong. After 2-3 minutes, turn the valve back on and if you have no freeflow, decide what to do from there. Whether you abort or just modify the profile and stay shallower in warmer water depends on the air remaining in the tank and in the pony (in case it occurs again, you need enough left in the pony to get you to the surface in a normal manner - a larger pony gives you more options.) I am a real fan of the 30.
Breathing out of the BC used to be taught in the good old days as sort of a poor mans very short term rebreather during emergency swimming ascents from deep water. Among other things it requires you to disonfect your BC bladder like you would a counterlung to prevent a potentially nasty resipritory infection. Between the infection risk and various and numerous risks associated with elevated CO2, I'd pass on the whole idea.
As an aside you can use your tongue to prevent any water from being blown down your throat - you can use it to block/deflect the air trying to enter through the mouthpiece. Most of the air will then try to go out the exhaust valve rather than try to inflate you.
Switch to the pony and shut down the freeflowing reg - it is not going to thaw if you are using it intermittently. Simple is always better when things go badly wrong. After 2-3 minutes, turn the valve back on and if you have no freeflow, decide what to do from there. Whether you abort or just modify the profile and stay shallower in warmer water depends on the air remaining in the tank and in the pony (in case it occurs again, you need enough left in the pony to get you to the surface in a normal manner - a larger pony gives you more options.) I am a real fan of the 30.
Breathing out of the BC used to be taught in the good old days as sort of a poor mans very short term rebreather during emergency swimming ascents from deep water. Among other things it requires you to disonfect your BC bladder like you would a counterlung to prevent a potentially nasty resipritory infection. Between the infection risk and various and numerous risks associated with elevated CO2, I'd pass on the whole idea.
As an aside you can use your tongue to prevent any water from being blown down your throat - you can use it to block/deflect the air trying to enter through the mouthpiece. Most of the air will then try to go out the exhaust valve rather than try to inflate you.
Ayisha
Contributor
Hi Pierre,
I did not intend to sway you towards a pony. I mentioned a pony because it is what I use on any of our particularly extreme dives here in Ontario. However, I am a particularly petite female with extremely good gas consumption, probably due to my small size. I believe a pony is adequate for me. The first time I did the Arabia, we hung a tank at 20 feet, but later through listening/reading, found out that a hang tank is false security, since the only guaranteed redundancy that you have is attached to you. A hang tank would be useless if you had to do a free ascent or if you needed it at depth or could not find it.
Please note that this is combined with a thought out dive plan and gas management plan. My buddy and I always stay above 130 feet and for extremely cold deep dives, we plan to be back at the line by the time either of us are at 1500 psi. We do a deep stop a little shallower than half way and then a graduated ascent and an extended (5 min) safety stop. We end the dive by 1500 psi to ensure that either one of us can get both of us to the surface safely. This can only work if we stick together, so we dive side-by-side. We are never more than a fin kick away from each other, and that's the way we like it, especially in the unforgiving environment we are in. This weekend, we were diving Lake Erie from the U.S. side (Barcelona, NY) in even worse conditions, as we have done before - same depth, temp, PLUS 5 feet viz on the line, good viz on the wrecks. We definitely stayed right together.
My plan for a freeflow is as others mentioned: switch to pony; turn off main tank; a little shallower, turn on the main tank and see if it still freeflows; repeat if necessary.
Whatever reg you get, make sure that it is a good cold water reg, balanced and environmentally sealed. I use a Sherwood Blizzard, which has served me well on numerous dives to 38F over the last 6+ years, but some people prefer Apeks, which is apparently extremely easy to breathe while at extreme depths or under exertion. I'm sure there are other recommendations for extreme cold water regs. The reg you have on your pony should be good quality as well, just like your primary reg.
Having said all that, I will again also say that there is no question that doubles are much safer, and should be considered.
Hope that helps.
OP
MasterGoa
Contributor
Yes it does help.
However, my recommendation request for the pony regulator.
I assume ponies have hoseless, on-valve regs?
Which is the best in that case?
Regards.
Pierre
However, my recommendation request for the pony regulator.
I assume ponies have hoseless, on-valve regs?
Which is the best in that case?
Regards.
Pierre
OP
MasterGoa
Contributor
OK, lets pretend I do not have a pony then...
I need multiple angles.
What plan can be used to deal with a freeze flow?
And BTW, what I had was not a regular free flow.
I tried using my tongue but the pressure was
WAY higher then while pressing the purge valve.
WAY higher...
Regards.
Pierre
PS: Which raises another question:
Can a freeze flow cause 3000psi air to
get up to the 2nd stage?
Hi Pierre. I sent you a PM about slinging an AL 30, regs and SPG. The short version is: You need a coldwater, environmentally sealed 1st stage, a coldwater 2nd stage, and an SPG. Lost of threads on how to configure and sling this using the search function.
If you do not have a pony and need to breathe from the free flowing second it is no problem as long as you prepare for it. If you are able to keep the reg in your mouth and continue to breathe from it that would be best. If not you can insert one of the sides of the mouthpiece into the corner of your mouth and "sip" air like a straw. I would recommend an environmetal reg if you are going to continue to dive that depth in cold water. I would also look into additional training for this type of diving. Free flows are no big deal, but the diver's response can make them a big deal. It sounds like you could benefit from the training. I also dive with a pony which is nice for piece of mind in the event of a free flow. I have used it in a free flow situation and it was worth every penny. Stay safe and I'm glad you are ok!
OP
MasterGoa
Contributor
OK, well I finished an hour of freeflow management and it went great.
The simples way is to undo the commerbun and raise the tank with the
left hand and cycle the valve with the right. It was as easy an breathing
a regular 2nd stage. I can now cancel a free flow in under 3 seconds...
What a difference THAT would have made.
So now I will seal my 1st stage and get a pony for 100+ dives
in the lakes.
Thanks all for the ideas and help, I am now a better diver because of it!
The simples way is to undo the commerbun and raise the tank with the
left hand and cycle the valve with the right. It was as easy an breathing
a regular 2nd stage. I can now cancel a free flow in under 3 seconds...
What a difference THAT would have made.
So now I will seal my 1st stage and get a pony for 100+ dives
in the lakes.
Thanks all for the ideas and help, I am now a better diver because of it!
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