What makes one regulator better than another?

[bakodiver391]

One thing I would look to avoid in a regulator are the second stages with brittle plastic exhaust covers, often held on with plastic clips moulded into the regulator body. When these clips break, as they often do, the regulator can't be fixed economically without replacing the body. Look for a robustly designed second stage, with a resiliant rubber exhaust cover that will typically fit tightly over a raised flange with a lip on the regulator body. Regulators get banged around. Buying one made of thin, brittle plastic is sure to be a disappointment.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

It all depends on the grade of plastic. Some age so well it’s almost like the day it was made 25 years later. Scubapro in particular. Some not so well, Aqualung, I’m looking at you.

 

[buddhasummer]

One thing I would look to avoid in a regulator are the second stages with brittle plastic exhaust covers, often held on with plastic clips moulded into the regulator body. When these clips break, as they often do, the regulator can't be fixed economically without replacing the body. Look for a robustly designed second stage, with a resiliant rubber exhaust cover that will typically fit tightly over a raised flange with a lip on the regulator body. Regulators get banged around. Buying one made of thin, brittle plastic is sure to be a disappointment.

Can you give some examples please? Thank you.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Can you give some examples please? Thank you.

This isn't a reply to your question--almost the opposite.

I don't have experience with different brands--my regs are all HOG--but my HOG Classic 2nd stages have always seemed "plastic-y" to me. Yet they have withstood hundreds of dives and a few removals of the exhaust cover (with those plastic tabs) so far. I guess they are tougher than they look.

So I too am curious which second stages have this problem.

Anyone have an opinion on Deep6's structural integrity?

 

[rsingler]

My only concern with Deep6 is the lack of a thrust washer under the face cover. I had one reg delivered from the factory with a folded diaphragm where the face plate "grabbed" it during the final quarter turn. My practice now is to wet the top edge and screw the last turn really slowly.
Chris takes some things pretty personally, so I haven't raised it with him, but I just can't see why this part was omitted. You really need a low friction buffer to prevent diaphragm movement when you screw on the faceplate. Virtually every other second with a screw-on face has it.
No complaints about the plastic, yet. My son's diving doubles tec with it now, and giving it a real workout. I'll report back.
I'm getting ready to service my Signature first and noticed that the HP oring (2-006) seems awfully soft for a Duro 90. Maybe it's the teflon in it. I'll compare with the one in there now, but a Viton duro 90 is quite clearly stiffer.

Did HOG fix the barrel engagement tabs in the second stage case? I have an original HOG and noted at my first class that it's possible to rotate the barrel 3-5° out of horizontal if you tighten the jam nut without watching lever position. I'd heard that the next version was different. Can anyone post pics?

 

[rsingler]

Oh, wait! I completely forgot that the back cover on the exhaust of one of my Signature HOG seconds has a broken plastic tab. Shoot! Thanks for reminding me. I'll post a pic.

EDIT!! See error acknowledged in post below.
It was a HOG with poorer plastic, and not my Signature that has a broken tab in the exhaust cover.

 

[halocline]

How is this quantified? What tests are done? While I believe that Atomics are very good regs (used to own an M1), so are Apeks, Deep 6, ScubaPro (all regs I’ve owned) and others that I haven’t.

While we all have subjective personal experiences, afaik there is nothing that gives numbers. What is the WOB for example. How is this quantified? I’d imagine that it would be some sort of resistance to overcome, amounts of suction to apply to get different amounts of gas. Not my field of engineering.

I bet this question has been addressed, and I apologize in advance for not reading every comment in this thread. But my opinion is that the test machine numbers are not very useful. Evaluating ease and comfort in breathing is by it's nature subjective, although there is no doubt that a regulator set to crack at 2" of water will feel harder to breathe than one set at 1" of water. (That's a really big difference) So there is some objectivity to evaluating regulator performance as well. But most regulators made and sold by the major manufacturers are going to do well enough on the test machines to make those numbers less relevant to actual divers in the water, as long as the reg is tuned correctly. As an example, WOB test machines can give very good scores to regulators with very low exhalation effort and lots of venturi assist. Most humans in the water don't mind slightly higher exhalation effort; it's the inhalation that we have more concern about. Likewise, I (and I suspect many others) don't really like the sensation of the venturi effect 'pushing' air into my mouth, but some regulators use this characteristic to lower the overall WOB numbers because there is a 'negative' effort on a portion of the breath cycle.

Maybe it's a little like evaluating wine. There are some reasonably objective things that everyone would agree on, then a lot of subtle things that only nerdy aficionados care about (while the normal people just enjoy their meal or dive) and a whole lot of hype with an appropriate price tag.

 

[rsingler]

My only concern with Deep6 is...

That's what I love about Deep6!!!
Word of my post filtered back to the boss, and I just had a nice text exchange with the company.

First, they are going to send me a new exhaust cover, even though the cracked tab was almost certainly my dumba** removal technique, rather than a manufacturing defect.

Next, I'm told that the Signatures now DO have a thrust washer for the second stage diaphragm! Anyone care to share a picture of the pieces? That makes this reg near perfect! Their poppet is near-unique in not having tabs you have to align with the lever feet. The only other reg like that is the SP C350. And Deep6 IS unique in having those flow vanes in the poppet that direct flow through the barrel.

They confirm that the HP oring indeed has a softer feel, due to the teflon. While that 2-006 common to other brands will work, Deep6 notes that the reg's responsiveness is better with the slippery'er Teflon. Another design improvement from Chris over other brands.

You think you'd ever get a note from the CEO of Scubapro or Huish regarding a problem?

There's a reason Deep6 has such a following on this Board. Between pricepoint, design, manufacturing tolerances and responsiveness, there's not a better company out there. Shearwater might match them for customer service, but with a new owner, who knows what the future will bring? Yeah, call me a Deep6 fanboi. I don't mind.

 

[Bigbella]

That's what I love about Deep6!!!
Word of my post filtered back to the boss, and I just had a nice text exchange with the company.

It may also help that you're the a Grand Poobah (in the positive, not Gilbert and Sullivan sense) -- of regulator repair . . .

 

[BoltSnap]

Shearwater might match them for customer service, but with a new owner, who knows what the future will bring? Yeah, call me a Deep6 fanboi. I don't mind.

Who has a new owner, Shearwater or D6? Who is the new owner?