Why give primary instead of alternate regulator?

[MaxBottomtime]

IOW? No, the original words are clear enough without being rewritten by someone who didn't grasp them. But, I guess one more try would be polite. Of course, since you're apparently into making excuses for muggers who threaten people's lives, I'm guessing this'll be futile.

I'm observing that people who try to kill other people should assume there may be some self defense coming. If someone tries to strangle someone else, a response is a real good idea. If someone tries to suffocate someone else, a response is a real good idea. And if someone does the same thing by mugging them for their air supply underwater, a response is a real good idea. The underwater mugger's intent may not be the same, but the outcome for the victim may well not be any different so there still needs to be a response that preserves the victim's life before that of the mugger. I'm going to make this as simple as possible for you: for rec divers configured with an octopus (who are likely out on their annual vacation dive), you don't take their primary suddenly and unexpectedly and without permission. If you do, you're threatening their life, and should expect a response. The other way, you aren't (you don't need permission to take the bright yellow octopus attached to the bright yellow hose).



You must have been so proud of yourself when you came up with that! Clever boy! So not at all predictable.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. If I saw a guy hanging by his fingernails over the edge of a cliff, I would kick him into the canyon below. I'm sure he would have pulled me over if I had reached out to save him. The nerve of that guy.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Most divers aren't super manly GUE types, of rock steady nerves and whatever else. I'm guessing you know that. Primary DONATE may be fine for the mighty aquamen of valor. It might even be the best thing to teach, IF every agency does it and there's a publicity campaign about it to alert some older divers. But that's not the case presently. And for those who say the agencies now consider it an option, go to their web sites and look at the photos: yellow, yellow, yellow. Primary TAKE for normal divers isn't a good idea. In real life, it's just an immediate guarantee of two people panicking. Buddy breathing went away for a reason, and mugging people for their primary isn't a safer practice.

How are you gonna teach Joe Blow and Jane Doe not to panic? I am actually curious about that. It doesn't seem much of a part of OW, at least in any way that lasts.

There are instructors who teach long(er) hoses in open water. It isn't a big deal. SSI has both be taught. PADI IIRC correctly, did publish an article about the pros and cons of both. Now what instructors do in their courses is another matter.

But seriously, your first inclination if someone out of desperation takes your primary is to stab them? How do you think that's going to work? They start bleeding profusely, probably drown right then and there, and you are just going to take your primary back and continue diving?

Once you surface, what do you think is going to happen to you? Will you be able to log into ScubaBoard from prison? You certainly won't be going to a minimum security one.

Or maybe, the whole knife thing is a stupid idea, and you should think about just going for your alternate instead. Maybe configure it on a necklace so it is both easy to donate or use yourself.

 

[happy-diver]

I'm hanging by the fingernails at the almost top of a sandstone limestone 30m cliff
when the random walking guy at the top rushes towards me hand outstretched and
I scream so loud he stops. So the top has been undercut, mr helper and possibly me
would have landed all broken up on rocks in the ocean with the wife walking with him
wondering where her morning went

Well when the weather goes so bad that you can't practice your solo donate
you gotta do somethin

 

[Edward3c]

Back in the day when we did buddy breathing because we only carried one reg there were a number of reg failures (free flows). Theses were caused by the reg suddenly being flooded.

This still applies now. Take a reg out of someone’s mouth and there is an increased likelihood it will free flow. Take a secondary that is already flooded, there is less likelihood it will free flow when the OOG diver needs it.

 

[Joebar]

This still applies now. Take a reg out of someone’s mouth and there is an increased likelihood it will free flow. Take a secondary that is already flooded, there is less likelihood it will free flow when the OOG diver needs it.

In Sidemount you constantly swap regs with several "flooding cycles". I never experienced or heard of increased free flows.

On the other hand buddy breathing increases stress to the reg. Maybe that was the reason for the increased free flows.

 

[Storker]

Most divers aren't super manly GUE types, of rock steady nerves and whatever else. I'm guessing you know that. Primary DONATE may be fine for the mighty aquamen of valor.

While I readily admit that I'm not GUE certed, I assume from your words that I must be super manly, of rock steady nerves and valor.

As much as I'd like to believe so, I have to admit that I can't. I'm just a regular dude who believes in proper training, laughs sadly at internet tough guys and otherwise prefers to behave like a decent human being. Judging from your posts here, it doesn't seem as if any of those characteristics would fit you.

 

[NAM001]

I have always seen jacket bcd divers have fits with the secondary reg. they tie down tuck it into to places to keep it from dangling. put 4 divers in a line and you will find min 2 ways the secondary reg is being stored including mouthpiece covers on some of them. the only reg trusted to be ready to draw on is the one being used. Offering a reg is another thing,,,,,, The donator can get his spare out and extended for offering. You can't expect to rationally think the problem when panic sets in. The biggest argument for giving the spare is that the primary normally is not long enough to extend and offer and still be able to maintain control of the situation. in that case a long hose secondary would be needed instead of one the just reaches the triangle. Use a 5 foot secondary to work the best and not tie wrap it up so it can not be extended. the draw back with that is that some will clip the reg on to something and it will not come free fast enough when needed by an OOA diver. donating is something that needs to be practiced regularly to make sure it can functionally be done.

 

[RayfromTX]

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[johndiver999]

Back in the day when we did buddy breathing because we only carried one reg there were a number of reg failures (free flows). Theses were caused by the reg suddenly being flooded.

This still applies now. Take a reg out of someone’s mouth and there is an increased likelihood it will free flow. Take a secondary that is already flooded, there is less likelihood it will free flow when the OOG diver needs it.

I've never heard this one before. I find it hard to believe it is relevant to the situation. With respect to free-flow - the secondary/back up stage is often adjusted to make freeflow less likely however.

 

[Khrissi]

@KWS you made me feel better abt loosing my new scubapro reg plug! Thinking thru my method on this thread now makes me feel the Alternate reg Should be unplugged in water. K