Should I Get A Longer Primary Hose When I Also Have A Safe Second?

[2airishuman]

I've got 15 dives under my belt and have finally started putting together a collection of my own equipment so I can use it on a Blackbeards trip I'm going on in a few months.. My question has to do with the second stage primary and backup.....
...Seems like the hose on my new XTX50 setup is too short. Is it common for people to get longer hoses for the primary when they have that safe second? I haven't measured it, but it seems the XTX50 is about 2 feet, just enough to comfortably go around your head.

Yes, 24" is too short to share air. Try an air share with it if you have any doubt.

As the posts upthread show, there are a range of primary hose lengths from 40" - 84" that are considered suitable. In very general terms, the tradeoff is that shorter hoses are more convenient for everything except dealing with an OOA emergency.

A 40" hose, for most people, will go under the right arm, across the chest, behind the neck, and up to the regulator. With ordinary hoses, a 70 degree or 90 degree adapter is all but necessary to make this work. With Miflex and similar hoses I don't use an adapter. On a boat or on shore, the regulator set is easy to handle and you don't have to worry much about dropping your primary on the deck or on the ground because the hose is short enough that you can carry the whole assembly by the first stage. Hose routing is easy to set up before a dive, and there's not really a problem with the hose getting out of place during a dive. I use this setup for most of my dives now.

I've used an 84" hose for many of my dives and continue to use it under some circumstances. DA Aquamaster describes the routing upthread -- a loop of hose has to be retained under your belt, then the hose continues across your chest and behind your neck as for the 40". Working the hose under your belt is an extra step before each dive and can be awkward to do with a tight belt and heavy kit. You have to be sure you get it over your head before tucking it under your belt if you're using a snorkel because it will catch the snorkel otherwise. Not difficult, just fiddly until you have enough practice for it all to be automatic. Sometimes I've had the long hose come loose from my belt in the water, usually right after splashing, and it can be fiddly to get back in place. You have to be more careful handling the regulator set too, on deck or on shore, to avoid dropping or dragging the secondary.

 

[Doby45]

A 40" hose, for most people, will go under the right arm, across the chest, behind the neck, and up to the regulator. With ordinary hoses, a 70 degree or 90 degree adapter is all but necessary to make this work.

There is no way you are routing a 40" hose the same way you do a 5' or 7' hose. I currently use a 40" hose and it goes under my right arm and right up to my mouth with a 90* elbow.

 

[2airishuman]

There is no way you are routing a 40" hose the same way you do a 5' or 7' hose. I currently use a 40" hose and it goes under my right arm and right up to my mouth with a 90* elbow.

You are correct, thanks, brain fart on my part.

 

[Murphdiggity]

This is all great info guys! I appreciate it. I actually got the BCD (Black Diamond) and the SS1 from a used sale at my local dive shop for $300. They actually belonged to one of the instructors and were in great shape. I also got a ATX40 regulator but later (this past week) replaced it with the XTX50 because I knew I'd want to give a wireless transmitter a try at some point so I needed at least 2 high pressure valves.

Here is my current equipment list:

BCD: Black Diamond
Reg: XTX50
1. Primary second stage, needs longer hose
2. Backup second stage, Atomic SS1
2. Cobra computer
Additonal Computer:
1. Suunto DX w/ wireless transmitter

Needs:
1. Sausage / safety tube and reel.
2. Tank banger

Bought the Cobra from my buddy and put a new battery in it. He said he also had a safety tube he can give me along with some other clip-ons and/or d rings I may want. So far I'm fairly happy with the equipment I have. Still learning tips and tricks. I got the DX from that dive shop sale. still in it's box. brand new $750. It just had a really old firmware on it so I sent it in and got it back. I've been messing around with it a bit so I know the settings inside and out along with the Cobra. I'm getting excited about doing more dives locally here in Texas. I went to Cozumel last year for my buddies underwater wedding and this year is that Blackbeard liveaboard cruise I mentioned before. I also got nitrox certified this year. I'll probably go to the dive shop and jump in their pool to test the length of the existing hose vs getting a longer one in the near future.

Thanks again
Murph

 

[Doby45]

Save your money on the ole tank banger and instead spend that money on your 40" hose..

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yup, longer primary hose on an Angle Adapter or Swivel.
You should aim for 40-44in; that will keep it tucked under your arm without being super long but also giving you enough room to turn your head.

Don't forget to practice dumping air while breathing off the Safe Second. That is equally important.
Practice Dumping your in-line AltAir+Inflator - a Note to Divers

Scubapro used a right shoulder dump on their BCs for this reason - it allowed the diver to use a dump valve separate from the Air 2. The downside is that with a short 36" to 40" hose it often helps a panicked diver if you hold onto his BC with your right hand so the second stage doesn't feel like it is about to be pulled out of his mouth if you drift a little farther away - a possibility while dumping - so you want to operate your right shoulder dump with your left hand. If the diver is really panicked you may need to operate the dump on his BC as well to manage a slow ascent.

Most Scubapro BCs that had Air 2s also had a pull dump in the top of the inflator hose. I've never liked those much as they are prone to breakage or failure and when they break or fail you lose all the lift in the BC. However, they do allow you to just press the hose slightly away from you with your left hand while the Air 2 is in your mouth, which will allow the dump cable to inside the slightly stretched corrugated hose to activate the dump.

Still, whether you are using an Air 2/ SS1/etc, in light of the feeling that a diver is about to lose a reg when it's on short hose, the five foot to seven foot hose options make for a much more comfortable air share and will go a long way toward helping a semi panicked diver calm down and manage a normal, slow, and comfortable ascent.

 

[Colliam7]

My question has to do with the second stage primary and backup.....Seems like the hose on my new XTX50 setup is too short. Is it common for people to get longer hoses for the primary when they have that safe second? I haven't measured it, but it seems the XTX50 is about 2 feet . . .

It should be common in the 'safe second' configuration. The primary second stage (the one in your mouth) is what you donate, and it should be on a longer (at least 40") hose. Unfortunately, what I perceive as 'common', is divers getting sold on an integrated second stage / inflator, with a 'standard' length (32-34") primary hose, without any knowledgeable coaching of the buyer, by the seller, on how to properly configure it. But, that is another matter, altogether.

In reality, it appears from your posts that you purchased your BCD, with integrated inflator / second stage, separately from your XTX50 regulator - at least that is my read of your posts - so maybe there was a disconnect somewhere along the line. The seller didn't realize the configuration in which the new regulator would be used.

With a more traditional regulator configuration - primary and alternate second stages - the 'common' hose length configuration is a shorter - 32-34" - hose on the primary, and a longer - 40" - hose on the alternate second stage. In that (traditional) configuration, the second stage on the 40" hose is what is donated in an OOA situation.

Did you buy your 'new' XTX50 with only a single second stage, and low pressure hose? If so, see if you can exchange that one hose for a longer (40") one. Out of curiosity, what was the primary hose length on the first XTX40 that your purchased?

Two thoughts on second stage hose lengths in general: 1) What I think is a better configuration, with two second stages, and common hose lengths, is to use the 40" hose on the 'primary' - what you breath throughout the dive, AND what you then donate in an OOA situation, and the shorter (32-34") hose on what then becomes the alternate - which is positioned on a bungee necklace, and lies right below your chin; 2) As several have said, while a 40" hose can be used for the donate-able primary, you are better off with a longer (60-84") hose. With the BCD you bought, it may be a little awkward to route a long hose, but it can be done.

One final observation:

I actually got the BCD (Black Diamond) and the SS1 from a used sale at my local dive shop for $300.

Your dive shop must be VERY proud of their gear. $300 for a USED Black Diamond and SSI is quite a bit. I don't know if you bought the XTX50 from them or not. If you did, I would be curious what you paid for that.

 

[Murphdiggity]

It should be common in the 'safe second' configuration. The primary second stage (the one in your mouth) is what you donate, and it should be on a longer (at least 40") hose. Unfortunately, what I perceive as 'common', is divers getting sold on an integrated second stage / inflator, with a 'standard' length (32-34") primary hose, without any knowledgeable coaching of the buyer, by the seller, on how to properly configure it. But, that is another matter, altogether.

In reality, it appears from your posts that you purchased your BCD, with integrated inflator / second stage, separately from your XTX50 regulator - at least that is my read of your posts - so maybe there was a disconnect somewhere along the line. The seller didn't realize the configuration in which the new regulator would be used.

With a more traditional regulator configuration - primary and alternate second stages - the 'common' hose length configuration is a shorter - 32-34" - hose on the primary, and a longer - 40" - hose on the alternate second stage. In that (traditional) configuration, the second stage on the 40" hose is what is donated in an OOA situation.

Did you buy your 'new' XTX50 with only a single second stage, and low pressure hose? If so, see if you can exchange that one hose for a longer (40") one. Out of curiosity, what was the primary hose length on the first XTX40 that your purchased?

Two thoughts on second stage hose lengths in general: 1) What I think is a better configuration, with two second stages, and common hose lengths, is to use the 40" hose on the 'primary' - what you breath throughout the dive, AND what you then donate in an OOA situation, and the shorter (32-34") hose on what then becomes the alternate - which is positioned on a bungee necklace, and lies right below your chin; 2) As several have said, while a 40" hose can be used for the donate-able primary, you are better off with a longer (60-84") hose. With the BCD you bought, it may be a little awkward to route a long hose, but it can be done.

One final observation: Your dive shop must be VERY proud of their gear. $300 for a USED Black Diamond and SSI is quite a bit. I don't know if you bought the XTX50 from them or not. If you did, I would be curious what you paid for that.

I'm learning as I go here. In the near future, I'll be testing my configuration out in the dive shops pool. If I don't like how the SS1 performs / fits then I will definitely be getting that alternate second stage.

I learned an expensive lesson when I determined the ATX40 was not what I wanted, months after I purchased it. I ended up trading it in for the XTX50 within the last couple weeks. It was important for me to have 2 HP valves. The cost of the XTX50 was $595 - $100 trad-in credit - 10% display model discount. Both of them (ATX40 and XTX50) only had the one secondary stage. I do not recall what the length of the ATX40 was. But I did measure the XTX50 and I misquoted the length originally. It is about 33". When I went in to purchase the XTX50, I didn't even think the length of the hose was going to be too short. I learned that afterwards and that is why I came in here asking.

I'll be testing the configuration soon and it will answer the following questions.

1. Will I be satisfied with how the SS1 works for me?
2. Can the SS1 be used safely while providing air via primary to the OOA diver?
3. When handing the primary to the OOA diver, what length of hose will be safe for both me and them?
4. How will I route the longer primary hose? adapters?
5. If I'm not happy with the SS1, which configuration do I want to use?
a. Longer primary to hand to the OOA diver and short secondary for me to use?
b. Standard lengths for primary and secondary. Handing secondary to OOA diver.

Thanks for your input.

 

[MX727]

You could also just add an alternate second stage. Next time you take your rig in for service and they tell you it's going to cost a fortune or they can't get parts for the SS1, then you can remove it and go back to a standard inflator. In the meantime you'll have a spare spare.