Hose Management - Reducing the number of hoses Vs better routing

[ams511]

A second stage will generally fail open, so another one attached to the same tank is of little use.

This is incorrect. Each second stage is independent of the other so if one fails the other will not be affected. In the event of a first stage IP creep there is a higher probability of both regulators failing but one could still be usable because of differences in tuning and type. In the event of a total first stage failure (high pressure air or turret detaches) then both second stages will be affected.

---------- Post added June 2nd, 2015 at 05:57 PM ----------

As long as there is a second, second stage, then that's redundancy.

I wasn't thinking of second stage failure, as in freeflow, as much as losing a mouthpiece, or having an exhaust diaphragm get folded or caught so the reg would breathe extremely wet. I've also been in the water with someone whose second stage came loose from the hose.

The question is what is to be done in case of a regulator failure? I would assume PADI and SSI would advocate calling the dive and switching to the pony rather than trying to fix the malfunctioning second stage under the water. In that case an octopus on the primary first stage would not add anything over the pony. So the octopus would be a redundant failure point.

 

[RJP]

Not in accordance with SDI training materials. A second stage is definitly not qualifying as a redundant air supply/system.

I have had a second stage come off and on my last trip I borrowed a second stage because mine was free flowing and when I returned it the fitting was nearly undone but by one thread. My fault in this case. And I have had a PI malfunction, a tank was set on it and the housing cracked leading to a stuck on condition upon my initial use.

Sorry Bob for being cranky, you know more about this stuff than me and I would generally defer to your reasoning.

N

I think Lynn was agreeing with you - at least in part - that the second stage you have on your redundant tank meets her desire/requirement of having a redundant second stage. But she was definitely NOT saying that the redundant second stage on her backgas meets any requirement for a fully separate ,redundant air source.

 

[Steve_C]

Solo diving does not mean you are always diving solo or that there are no other divers around or that the whole dive is solo. When diving off NC from a boat I am always in solo configuration. There are always other divers in the water around me.
- I may be diving with a buddy and they develope a leaky regulator and are taken back to the anchor and they go up the line and I stay down for a while. Buddy --> solo (this is a preagreed arrangement with a regular buddy.) Or they get cold.
- Every body else was in a class so I am diving solo and come across a lost student from a class. Take her under my wing and get her back to the boat. Solo --> untrained buddy
- I prefer buddying with good divers but on easier dives will instabuddy with new divers. Diving solo with a buddy.
-May find on the boat 2 newbies that want to buddy up. With a group of 4 we will have two buddy pairs. If all are still together back at the anchor line, we may rearrange the buddy pairs with one buddy pair going up and the other staying down depending on air, water temp etc. Newbies tend to rent 3 mm wet suits without hoods and in the first part of the diving year getting chilled and want to go up earlier.


In my keep it simple mind, being in a configuration that is standard to a new diver who I may have not started the dive with makes life easier. Not saying it is better but it is reliable.

My pony is a 19. If my mouth piece were to comes off I would rather switch to the octo then start draining the pony.

 

[ams511]

In my keep it simple mind, being in a configuration that is standard to a new diver who I may have not started the dive with makes life easier. Not saying it is better but it is reliable.

I think that if a diver is in a situation where he needs or wants to provide assistance to another diver, then he is not really diving solo.

 

[Steve_C]

I think that if a diver is in a situation where he needs or wants to provide assistance to another diver, then he is not really diving solo.

So as a solo diver I should avoid assisting another diver? It is not a need or a want. It is something that happens. Neither sought nor avoided. Guess I have never dived solo and will never dive solo by that definition.

The definition for SDI Solo is that is has to do with self reliance and preparation and ability to take care of yourself not whether somebody else is in the area.

 

[eelnoraa]

IMO, proper routing and proper hose length is a lot more effective than removing 1 hose. Take a drysuit diver using hogarthian style, 4 hoses: primary 2nd, secondary 2nd, BC inflator and drysuit. Everything is tugged in properly, nothing is bowing. If you take a picture of them, most likely you will notice one small bow from necklace. Compare to diver who chose to use air2, 1 hose less. In order for the air2 to be usable, the corrugated hose needs to be 18-19" with 22" LP hose. Essential same length as hogarthian necklace. This setup alone will dangle big time when the diver is in trim. Beside Air2, I don't know how else one can remove a hose. Exclude solo diving

 

[RJP]

Hoses are, literally, a "means to an end" when you think about it.

If you need the thing at the end of the hose... you need the hose.
If you need the hose... route it properly.

Some things in diving aren't as hard as we make them out to be.

 

[ams511]

So as a solo diver I should avoid assisting another diver? It is not a need or a want. It is something that happens. Neither sought nor avoided. Guess I have never dived solo and will never dive solo by that definition.

The definition for SDI Solo is that is has to do with self reliance and preparation and ability to take care of yourself not whether somebody else is in the area.

I am sure the certifying agencies defined solo diving after consulting more lawyers than divers. If you remember years ago all the agencies frowned upon solo diving and many still do. Personally, I could care less about the SDI or PADI definition.

You can have a conventional octopus if you like but isn't it SDI saying a conventional octopus is unnecessary?

I stand by my statement that if you are diving with the mindset that there are other divers in the water that may need your help then you are not really planning a solo dive.

---------- Post added June 4th, 2015 at 09:07 AM ----------

I In order for the air2 to be usable, the corrugated hose needs to be 18-19" with 22" LP hose. Essential same length as hogarthian necklace. This setup alone will dangle big time when the diver is in trim.

It depends on what you want to use an Air 2 for. If you want to use it like a regular regulator then you need a longer inflator hose. If you are using it as an emergency device to get to the surface only then it works fine on a shorter hose. Think about it, if the hose is long enough for you to manually inflate your BC, then it is long enough for you to breath off of in an emergency.

 

[RJP]

I stand by my statement that if you are diving with the mindset that there are other divers in the water that may need your help then you are not really planning a solo dive.

My SDI card says "Solo Diver" not "Selfish Diver".

It's about planning for where YOU are going to get help from... not planning to limit your ability/willingness to help others. Sure, some solo dives are one person off somewhere remote by themselves... but most are usually done in and among a group of other divers. I'm not saying that a solo diver needs to go out of their way to plan to be everyone's buddy... but there's no reason to plan/configure yourself with a specific goal of ensuring that you are UNABLE to provide help should the situation/opportunity arise.

 

[Andyoak]

This is incorrect. Each second stage is independent of the other so if one fails the other will not be affected.

Of course one failing is not going to cause the other to fail!

But if one is free flowing the second one attached to the same air source is not going to much good to you for very long.