St Andrews State Park has any1 tried this???

[diveprof]

I still stand by my comments. Copter's planned actions place not only Copter at risk, but also his dive buddy (not sure if he has one based on what I've read so far). He does not take into account the possible outcome of his actions on others (i.e. boat captain and any passengers). Although I would hope that new divers would quickly recognize the potentially dangerous and unlawful nature of Copter's planned actions, another reason I have responded to these posts is that I realize that newly certified divers frequent SB and I would not want them to get the idea that diving without a flag is a legal or acceptable practice supported by the scuba training agencies.

 

[copter53]

Reposting coz ppl might have missed this

John you couldn't be closer from the truth. I agree with you. I'm the one taking the risk by not taking a flag and if I die as a result thats my problem and the boat captian should just clean the blood off his hull and continue out to sea. in addition, you can hear boats as you come up and when you're at like 10 feet you start getting really close to the rocks and surface at an area that boats can't possibly come because of the rocks acting as a physical barrier. Most of the time I start my dive in the kiddy pool and go over the rocks underwater and then back over underwater at the end of my dive so boat collision chances are zero.

What about if you HAVE to surface in the channel. the answer is you should NEVER have to. i have been diving for 7 years and have brought a flag with me for the first 5. Now i know how to dive and have never had a problem coz I am safe and plan my dive and always surface with atleast 800-900psi so im always in the clear. Trust your skills as a diver they sure as hell are more valuable to you then a stupid colored flag. Plan to surface with 1000psi if you start going up and realize that there are "boats like bees" go down again 500 psi can last me like 15 mins at 25ft atleast thats if im breathing hard and fighting the current.

Every1 thinks they all safe coz they have a flag. True safety is being confident in your abilities and not screwing your buoyancy so you surface only when you want to.

How many times have I seen a diver with a flag who has trouble staying at 15 ft during the safety stop. Whats the problem here? Buoyancy not a flag. The fact is the flag is only useful half the time when the boat captian actually knows what it means and CARES to follow the law. other than that the boat is going over the flag or a fisherman is tugging at it with his line which forces you to ascend somewhat if not all the way to the surface to cut his line or hear his rude remarks.

Or the flag is distracting you from performing other more useful tasks such as navigation or buddy control. Can I navigate, watch my buddies, tow the flag, check their air, and return safely all at once YES i have done it like 75+ times. But WHY waste your energy if you dont HAVE to. In addition i take a flag when I dive with others coz they are rookies and they might need or want to surface for some reason. But when I dive alone. NO flag its more a hazard then a help. and if FMP catches me I will explain that to them and if they dont agree then me and my lawyer will make a good case in front of a judge.

FMP should focus on telling these fisherman to follow the law. I have gotten pulled by fisherman multiple times coz they simply dont care if they cut you or break your flag. they dont CARE

you might want to consider that sometimes a flag is the SAFER way and sometimes it is NOT the safer way.


NOW that I have already decided not to take the flag. What should I do to avoid FMP? or how should I deal with them if caught "breaking the law"/"diving safer"?

 

[bletso]

What about if you HAVE to surface in the channel. the answer is you should NEVER have to. i have been diving for 7 years and have brought a flag with me for the first 5. Now i know how to dive and have never had a problem coz I am safe and plan my dive and always surface with atleast 800-900psi so im always in the clear. Trust your skills as a diver they sure as hell are more valuable to you then a stupid colored flag. Plan to surface with 1000psi if you start going up and realize that there are "boats like bees" go down again 500 psi can last me like 15 mins at 25ft atleast thats if im breathing hard and fighting the current.

Or the flag is distracting you from performing other more useful tasks such as navigation or buddy control. Can I navigate, watch my buddies, tow the flag, check their air, and return safely all at once YES i have done it like 75+ times. But WHY waste your energy if you dont HAVE to. In addition i take a flag when I dive with others coz they are rookies and they might need or want to surface for some reason. But when I dive alone. NO flag its more a hazard then a help. and if FMP catches me I will explain that to them and if they dont agree then me and my lawyer will make a good case in front of a judge.

Just to let you know that 25ft is not deep enough if a freighter is passing overhead. Hey, but as you said it's your skin. Darwin and Murphy like people like you. Just because you've been diving for 7 years doesn't make you king sh.. Your time will come and I hope you will have had enough near misses to have prepared you to react correctly.

We had a local chap who used to use an industrial oxygen cylinder to top off his tires. He'd been doing for 20 years and he argued vociferously of its safety, that is until the tire went off and took a chunk of his leg and nearly neutered him. Morgues are full of know it alls, some of which whose time just ran out.

BTW, in all likely-hood what will happen is the FMP will remove you from the water with the possibility of gear confiscation. If you are so bold as to hire a lawyer, he will be happy and you will end up with the full fine plus court costs.

If you find that the flag is too burdensome in allowing you to perform other tasks, then perhaps your skill set isn't as good as you assume. May I remind you the most important task whilst diving is coming out of the dive safely. Look at the flag as seat belt usage is in driving. Contrary to your belief, diving with a flag is safer than without.

Safe Diving

Dale

 

[diveprof]

BTW, I find it a bit confusing (maybe even a little amusing) that the mods are allowing a poster to encourage an unsafe activity that is also in violation of marine regulations and places others at risk/ possible negative outcomes and carries a stiff fine as well as his soliciting others to "aid and abet" him in the commission of such activity with suggestions as how to avoid law enforcement without any action by SB ...now if your name was Jax, or if you talked about a change in Scubapro warranty policy or Keith Diver, well that's a different story!

Oh, I get it.. freedom of speech , right?:sinq:

 

[770link770]

I don't see why there is a huge problem. He should be treating it as an overhead environment since it would be dangerous to surface anywhere in the channel. Therefore if he treats it as an overhead environment and prepares beforehand to not surface unless by either of the jetties, then it should not put anybody at risk. While near the jetties and in shallower water I agree he should have a dive flag, but when crossing the channel since I believe it gets to 80-90' out there at least, there should be no need for him to tow a flag (probably more dangerous with the high boat traffic) if he is not going to surface until he is all the way across.

The only problems that would arise is if he had to make an emergency accent, which if treated as an overhead environment then he should have already prepared optional escape plans being as that would only be at the very bottom of the list. If it came to that I would think he would probably be better off with a 6' or taller dsmb that would be more easily seen than a small towed dive flag. He could launch while still safely below and hope for the best when he got to the surface. Best option however is to rule out ever surfacing in the channel to prevent all of these problems.

 

[diveprof]

I see you have 0-24 dives so I'll explain. It is still an unlawful activity that carries a stiff fine. FMP would not hesitate to write a ticket.

 

[770link770]

I understand that FMP would have no problem writing a ticket, they don't have any problem writing a ticket for anything that you do. Don't get me wrong though, I personally don't have many dives but have grown up around diving all my life and am an avid free diver. Just recently got into actually taking the step to maintain more bottom time. Apart from the fact that it is illegal (because honestly people still do it anyways... like I mentioned earlier I know of a couple people that do it regularly but use scooters to get across faster) would the dive across the channel not be any more dangerous as say a cave dive? Like I said if planned correctly the diver should never have a reason to surface outside of the safety margin of either jetty. The channel itself is not that wide, and divers are allowed a decent ways out on either side already as there are slight drop off shelves leading into deeper water. If I had to guesstimate I would put the "no dive zone" to only be between maybe 500-800 ft wide anyways, but then again that's just guessing at what I've seen out there diving the location on previous outings.

Don't get me wrong though I'm in no way endorsing this dive or for him to do it because honestly I'd never do it. I'm content with diving St. Andrew Jetties still and it has never been a disappointing dive, but if I wanted to dive the Shell Island side I'd either take the ferry over or rent a boat and dive off of it. I'm just trying to understand everyone's viewpoints on what is allowed, tolerated, and frowned upon.

 

[mike_s]

I live in Panama City and I just love to dive the state park. Now every now and then I have my eye on shell Island and I'm wondering/planning?? Has any1 ever scuba dove shell Island? Has any1 ever swam underwater from one Jetty to the other??

The "Shell Island Shuttle" runs back and forth all day from St Andrews to Shell Island.

I think it's $8 to $10 bucks. (round trip). Go over... take your tanks (and flag), dive and enjoy the ride back.


A lot safer than trying to swim across the channel in the currents.

 

[copter53]

The "Shell Island Shuttle" runs back and forth all day from St Andrews to Shell Island.

I think it's $8 to $10 bucks. (round trip). Go over... take your tanks (and flag), dive and enjoy the ride back.


A lot safer than trying to swim across the channel in the currents.

How exactly does the shutle work? Where do they drop you off? What if they leave without you and your stuck on shell Island?

 

[770link770]

How exactly does the shutle work? Where do they drop you off? What if they leave without you and your stuck on shell Island?

$17/adult gets you a round trip out there. The shuttle runs every half hour from 9 am to 5 pm everyday through the summer. Hours are different in the spring and fall.