St Andrews State Park has any1 tried this???

[copter53]

The chances of a boat getting me are pretty much zero coz I never surface im less im can basically touch the rocks with my hands in which case a boat would never come that close or else risk hull damage dunno why every1 wants to hate. As if humans always follow the law. Do u stop at every single stop sign? Do u ever go over the speed limit? I mean come on guys Im not going to take a flag every single time. the current and the waves cause drag you cant dispute that fact. Two free hands are always fun plus worrying about keeping the flag line taught the whole time is annoying. not saying I cant do it but its just one less thing to worry about.

 

[diveprof]

The chances of a boat getting me are pretty much zero coz I never surface im less im can basically touch the rocks with my hands in which case a boat would never come that close or else risk hull damage dunno why every1 wants to hate. As if humans always follow the law. Do u stop at every single stop sign? Do u ever go over the speed limit? I mean come on guys Im not going to take a flag every single time. the current and the waves cause drag you cant dispute that fact. Two free hands are always fun plus worrying about keeping the flag line taught the whole time is annoying. not saying I cant do it but its just one less thing to worry about.

I see that neither diving safety nor any personal responsibility to provide a positive image regarding divers to the general public are very high on your list.

Please be sure to share your arguments arguments against dive flags with FMP. I'm sure FMP will be greatly impressed with these arguments as they write out the $250 ticket.

 

[John from the burg]

I see what your saying copter. While public opinion of divers does matter to me most people don't know even know what it is let alone what to do. Seeing a diver without a flag is no worse to me than seeing a diver drag one across what looks like to me a main channel.

Don't get me started on laws protecting me from myself.

Either way i say do what you want its your life.

 

[diversteve]

The chances of a boat getting me are pretty much zero coz I never surface im less im can basically touch the rocks

Seems like a long way to hold your breath if your reg fails 1/2 way across...

 

[diveprof]

Don't get me started on laws protecting me from myself.
just
Either way i say do what you want its your life.

Your argument has a major flaw. This isn't just about him. Say his reg screws up during the dive and he has to ascend. A boat hits and kills him with the prop. OK, for him, that's just Darwin's Theory of Evolution in action. However, for the operator/captain of the boat, this will be a traumatic event that the operator/captain will never forget and may have nightmares and other psychological consequences for the rest of his/her life. So, it is not just about "the diver."

 

[copter53]

Your argument has a major flaw. This isn't just about him. Say his reg screws up during the dive and he has to ascend. A boat hits and kills him with the prop. OK, for him, that's just Darwin's Theory of Evolution in action. However, for the operator/captain of the boat, this will be a traumatic event that the operator/captain will never forget and may have nightmares and other psychological consequences for the rest of his/her life. So, it is not just about "the diver."

I really don't understand this. You can hear a boat and then realize where it is as you surface and avoid it. I think your turning this into a whole deal when its really just a fun little adventure.

 

[WeldonDowd]

We plan on renting a party barge next time we are there to dive the other jetty and shell island. I was also told a few weeks ago by a dm on a charter we were on that you can get on the state parks' ferry with your dive gear and get dropped off on shell island. We are getting the party barge though because it seems easier.
As far as the flag debate goes....who cares....do what you want.

 

[bletso]

I really don't understand this. You can hear a boat and then realize where it is as you surface and avoid it. I think your turning this into a whole deal when its really just a fun little adventure.

Well yes you can hear it, but physics won't allow you to locate it. At times the jetties will sound like a bee hive. Which one is aiming for you? Perhaps none, then again maybe all of them.

A dive flag is indeed a PITA from time to time, but it is a tool that could just save you from a very serious debilitating injury or death. I dive a MCCR and don't even have bubbles to alert an attentive skipper with a beer or two under his/her belt. I always like stacking the cards in my favor. I have an aversion to pain. I guess compared to you I am just different that way.


Dale

 

[John from the burg]

Your argument has a major flaw. This isn't just about him. Say his reg screws up during the dive and he has to ascend. A boat hits and kills him with the prop. OK, for him, that's just Darwin's Theory of Evolution in action. However, for the operator/captain of the boat, this will be a traumatic event that the operator/captain will never forget and may have nightmares and other psychological consequences for the rest of his/her life. So, it is not just about "the diver."

What happens at 130' when your reg screws up? Start kicking? I personally would reach out my hand and take my dive buddies spare. Then we would obviously call the dive but safely return from where we came. Without getting into to much detail this exact situation happened to me twice because my dive partner (now x because it happened twice) wanted the cheapest **** possible. Once we had to swim in the channel for about 500' w him on my octo before we could surface safely. I do not make a habit of doing it but sometimes the dynamic circumstances of life require deviation from the standard.

On the feelings of the boat captain after an accident, I put as much value to a human life as the next guy but if i was motoring my lil flats boat up a channel and a diver without a flag popped up and got hit I would feel bad for him because i am human but "nightmares and other psychological consequences" i just don't see. Not anymore traumatic than someone who's involved in a really bad traffic accident, or anyone who sees anything traumatic, some people are highly affected and some are not. Our waterproofing manager here at work was driving over the sunshine skyway when the car directly in front of him stops on the very top and a man gets out walks to the edge and jumps. He was messed up for a few days after that obviously but he came to terms with the fact that people are going to do what they want and other people have very little influence over said action.

 

[copter53]

John you couldn't be closer from the truth. I agree with you. I'm the one taking the risk by not taking a flag and if I die as a result thats my problem and the boat captian should just clean the blood off his hull and continue out to sea. in addition, you can hear boats as you come up and when you're at like 10 feet you start getting really close to the rocks and surface at an area that boats can't possibly come because of the rocks acting as a physical barrier. Most of the time I start my dive in the kiddy pool and go over the rocks underwater and then back over underwater at the end of my dive so boat collision chances are zero.

What about if you HAVE to surface in the channel. the answer is you should NEVER have to. i have been diving for 7 years and have brought a flag with me for the first 5. Now i know how to dive and have never had a problem coz I am safe and plan my dive and always surface with atleast 800-900psi so im always in the clear. Trust your skills as a diver they sure as hell are more valuable to you then a stupid colored flag. Plan to surface with 1000psi if you start going up and realize that there are "boats like bees" go down again 500 psi can last me like 15 mins at 25ft atleast thats if im breathing hard and fighting the current.

Every1 thinks they all safe coz they have a flag. True safety is being confident in your abilities and not screwing your buoyancy so you surface only when you want to.

How many times have I seen a diver with a flag who has trouble staying at 15 ft during the safety stop. Whats the problem here? Buoyancy not a flag. The fact is the flag is only useful half the time when the boat captian actually knows what it means and CARES to follow the law. other than that the boat is going over the flag or a fisherman is tugging at it with his line which forces you to ascend somewhat if not all the way to the surface to cut his line or hear his rude remarks.

Or the flag is distracting you from performing other more useful tasks such as navigation or buddy control. Can I navigate, watch my buddies, tow the flag, check their air, and return safely all at once YES i have done it like 75+ times. But WHY waste your energy if you dont HAVE to. In addition i take a flag when I dive with others coz they are rookies and they might need or want to surface for some reason. But when I dive alone. NO flag its more a hazard then a help. and if FMP catches me I will explain that to them and if they dont agree then me and my lawyer will make a good case in front of a judge.

FMP should focus on telling these fisherman to follow the law. I have gotten pulled by fisherman multiple times coz they simply dont care if they cut you or break your flag. they dont CARE

you might want to consider that sometimes a flag is the SAFER way and sometimes it is NOT the safer way.


NOW that I have already decided not to take the flag. What should I do to avoid FMP? or how should I deal with them if caught "breaking the law"/"diving safer"?

What happens at 130' when your reg screws up? Start kicking? I personally would reach out my hand and take my dive buddies spare. Then we would obviously call the dive but safely return from where we came. Without getting into to much detail this exact situation happened to me twice because my dive partner (now x because it happened twice) wanted the cheapest **** possible. Once we had to swim in the channel for about 500' w him on my octo before we could surface safely. I do not make a habit of doing it but sometimes the dynamic circumstances of life require deviation from the standard.

On the feelings of the boat captain after an accident, I put as much value to a human life as the next guy but if i was motoring my lil flats boat up a channel and a diver without a flag popped up and got hit I would feel bad for him because i am human but "nightmares and other psychological consequences" i just don't see. Not anymore traumatic than someone who's involved in a really bad traffic accident, or anyone who sees anything traumatic, some people are highly affected and some are not. Our waterproofing manager here at work was driving over the sunshine skyway when the car directly in front of him stops on the very top and a man gets out walks to the edge and jumps. He was messed up for a few days after that obviously but he came to terms with the fact that people are going to do what they want and other people have very little influence over said action.