Master.........Really?

[Walter]

I would have to say that they (PADI and NAUI MD) are about the same

You are mistaken. One is a class, the other is not. You're comparing apples and pork chops.

 

[Crowley]

Since this keeps going - I will chime in.

The Master Diver ratings represent somebody who should, in theory, have gained some degree of mastery over their diving abilities; good buoyancy and air control, safe and conservative dive practices, in an evironment in which they are comfortable. Does it make them a "Master" of the art of diving as in the term which might be applied to the Yoda equivalency of their own chosen field? Most assuredly not, but I doubt very few people could lay claim to that one. Does a degree "Master of Engineering" mean that person knows everything there is to know about their chosen subject? No, but it's a term in use for centuries.

Sadly, it would seem that it has become possible for divers to earn their Master Diver rating by sheer dint of the fact they have managed somehow to survive their 50 or whatever dives, and have been signed off simply because they paid for a course. I disagree with this very strongly, of course.

For those who really do want to improve their diving by taking these courses and LEARNING from them, a MD rating for many people represents a significant investment of time and money into their chosen hobby and dive professionals should recognise that investment. I work at a high volume centre and most of the divers who arrive with a MD or MSD certification are, in fact, very competent recreational divers, some a good deal more competent than people who lay claim to hundreds, if not thousands of dives.

Very experienced divers often sniff at these ratings, but I think many of them forget that they were new once as well, and since their own training may have been more rigorous, feel that the "Master" certifications offered by recreational agencies are meaningless. I understand that sentiment, but the simple fact is that times have changed. It's a fun holiday pastime nowadays, not the more serious technical challenge it might have been in the past. Cert cards are like badges awarded in Boy Scouts - many people do indeed feel proud of their achievements and like to carry proof of that. And why shouldn't they?

When I'm guiding and I get master divers in my group I treat them with respect as a fellow experienced diver. You know what? Then they are more likely to listen to my advice. It works for me and it works for them.

For the record - yes I know I am a "Master" Instructor, and yes I know others think it's meaningless, and yes I know that the rating - like any professional qualification, can be earned cheaply in some locations. I actually hold the rating because a previous employer wanted all the permanent staff to be MIs - I had the requisite qualifications and so therefore I am. On the other hand, it represents a very significant investment of time and effort and money on my part, I was very well trained, I think I am a pretty good instructor and have been a valued member of staff by all of my employers. Am I proud of my achievment? Yes - and I used to be a Boy Scout!

Safe diving folks,

C.

 

[Mike Boswell]

You are mistaken. One is a class, the other is not. You're comparing apples and pork chops.

I disagree, Walter. I often read this "It's not a class, just a piece of paper" argument. The proponents of this argument always fail to provide specifics to make their case:

What does a NAUI master Diver learn, that a PADI Master Diver doesn't learn?

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of others, with the PADI system you take a series of individual courses (Specialties and Rescue) to earn the MD certification, where in the NAUI system the MD has it's own curriculum.

That would be significant if the learning was significantly different. But it isn't. It's just a matter of how they organize the material.

Not apples and pork chops, toMAYtoes and toMAHtoes.

 

[jar546]

Since this keeps going - I will chime in.

The Master Diver ratings represent somebody who should, in theory, have gained some degree of mastery over their diving abilities; good buoyancy and air control, safe and conservative dive practices, in an evironment in which they are comfortable. Does it make them a "Master" of the art of diving as in the term which might be applied to the Yoda equivalency of their own chosen field? Most assuredly not, but I doubt very few people could lay claim to that one. Does a degree "Master of Engineering" mean that person knows everything there is to know about their chosen subject? No, but it's a term in use for centuries.

Sadly, it would seem that it has become possible for divers to earn their Master Diver rating by sheer dint of the fact they have managed somehow to survive their 50 or whatever dives, and have been signed off simply because they paid for a course. I disagree with this very strongly, of course.

For those who really do want to improve their diving by taking these courses and LEARNING from them, a MD rating for many people represents a significant investment of time and money into their chosen hobby and dive professionals should recognise that investment. I work at a high volume centre and most of the divers who arrive with a MD or MSD certification are, in fact, very competent recreational divers, some a good deal more competent than people who lay claim to hundreds, if not thousands of dives.

Very experienced divers often sniff at these ratings, but I think many of them forget that they were new once as well, and since their own training may have been more rigorous, feel that the "Master" certifications offered by recreational agencies are meaningless. I understand that sentiment, but the simple fact is that times have changed. It's a fun holiday pastime nowadays, not the more serious technical challenge it might have been in the past. Cert cards are like badges awarded in Boy Scouts - many people do indeed feel proud of their achievements and like to carry proof of that. And why shouldn't they?

When I'm guiding and I get master divers in my group I treat them with respect as a fellow experienced diver. You know what? Then they are more likely to listen to my advice. It works for me and it works for them.

For the record - yes I know I am a "Master" Instructor, and yes I know others think it's meaningless, and yes I know that the rating - like any professional qualification, can be earned cheaply in some locations. I actually hold the rating because a previous employer wanted all the permanent staff to be MIs - I had the requisite qualifications and so therefore I am. On the other hand, it represents a very significant investment of time and effort and money on my part, I was very well trained, I think I am a pretty good instructor and have been a valued member of staff by all of my employers. Am I proud of my achievment? Yes - and I used to be a Boy Scout!

Safe diving folks,

C.

Great post, full of common sense.

 

[drbill]

I'd have to disagree with the OP's comment about "master diver before instructor." I don't think much of the M.D. cert (especially when the recipient wears every darn patch available on their warm up coat), but there are MANY divers who are far better in the water than MANY instructors I have seen.

Some of us have no desire to go pro!

 

[Walter]

That would be significant if the learning was significantly different. But it isn't. It's just a matter of how they organize the material.

If that were true, I would agree with you.

PADI MD requires:
50 dives
AOW
Rescue
5 specialties - they could be:
1. Peak Performance Buoyancy - skills you should have learned in the OW class.
2. Night Diver - skills you should have learned in the advanced class.
3. Equipment Specialist - common sense and skills you should have learned in the OW class.
4. Underwater Natualist - material you should have learned in the OW class or elementary school science class.
5. Underwater Navigator - material have learned in the OW class and had refreshed in AOW.

NAUI MD is instructor level academics. It leaves out teaching and being in charge of groups, but other than that is pretty close to an instructor course.

Apples and pork chops.

 

[jar546]

I actually love apples with porkchops, especially applesauce. The combination of pork and apple flavor is outstanding.

 

[Walter]

That may be, but you cannot equate the two, they are vastly different (much more so than apples and oranges).

 

[FredT]

Sounds like the current PADI MD "course work" is equivalent to the old NAUI/NASDS/YMCA (pre-PADI) Scuba Diver cert, with about 44 more dives thrown in.

Way back in the dark ages I looked at becoming a NAUI instructor, but found I didn't like dealing with students enough. The NAUI MD option wasn't available then or I might have pursued it. Instead I just dove, A LOT, in all kinds of water doing all kinds of things. IMNSHO That is the best way to develop the skills, if you survive it.

 

[Zieg]

Instead I just dove, A LOT, in all kinds of water doing all kinds of things. IMNSHO That is the best way to develop the skills, if you survive it.

I agree, IMO the only true way to become a "Master Diver" is through experience, but that doesn't satisfy the instant gratification generation.