Master.........Really?

[Mike Boswell]

If that were true, I would agree with you.

PADI MD requires:
50 dives
AOW
Rescue
5 specialties - they could be:
1. Peak Performance Buoyancy - skills you should have learned in the OW class.
2. Night Diver - skills you should have learned in the advanced class.
3. Equipment Specialist - common sense and skills you should have learned in the OW class.
4. Underwater Natualist - material you should have learned in the OW class or elementary school science class.
5. Underwater Navigator - material have learned in the OW class and had refreshed in AOW.

NAUI MD is instructor level academics. It leaves out teaching and being in charge of groups, but other than that is pretty close to an instructor course.

Apples and pork chops.

I'm curious to know what is it, specifically, that a NAUI MD knows or can do, that a PADI MD doesn't know or can't do?

 

[Rhone Man]

It is interesting that complainst about the MSD are usually discussed as PADI v NAUI, but SSI and SDI have even laxer requirements for their MSD rating. I know Thal will argue that PADI led the race to the bottom.

 

[Thalassamania]

I think comparisons are, frankly, a waste of time. But I think that the history of the situation is interesting and, frankly, diagnostic of the agencies and their goals.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I think comparisons are, frankly, a waste of time. But I think that the history of the situation is interesting and, frankly, diagnostic of the agencies and their goals.

You and Walter have both indicated that you feel there is a "vast" difference between the NAUI and PADI MD training. I'm just asking for some specific examples of this.

I'm curious to know what is it, specifically, that a NAUI MD knows or can do, that a PADI MD doesn't know or can't do?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That depends on what "specialties" the MD took. Nowhere in the specialties is decompression procedures covered as it is in the NAUI course. Physiology is at instructor level, hyperbaric chamber operations are covered as well as 5 decompression theories from Haldane to Swiss and Canadian. If the specialty is not taken search and recovery is one dive maybe in AOW. NAUI covers search and light salvage. Gas management is covered in detail that PADI does not address at all until the Tec level. NAUI's master diver also includes skin/free diving. Nowhere does the PADI program require a skin dive to 30 ft and a 400 yd swim or 25 meter breathold swim. It is possible to get a PADI MSD card with no indepth deco procedures, no search and recovery, no UW Nav (except the one AOW dive), no night, and no detailed gas management. Again all NAUI Master Scuba Divers are expected to have the same level of knowledge AND skills as an Instructor or NAUI DM (equiv to PADI AI). The only missing elements are the actual teaching skills. They are expected to be able to lead dives and supervise dive operations. None of which is required or expected of PADI MSD. NAUI MSD is an actual course. PADI MSD is a card.

 

[Mike Boswell]

From the NAUI website: NAUI Worldwide Master Scuba Diver

NAUI Master Scuba Diver

Gain the in-depth knowledge that will establish you as a recognized authority in your diving club or group. Hone your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader. Thrill to the adventure of open water dives in settings that will test your abilities to their limit while enhancing and expanding your diving capabilities. Then proudly wear the most coveted and respected patch in recreational diving - that of the NAUI Master Scuba Diver.

Overview
The course is an continuing education certification course for divers who wish to increase their understanding and enjoyment of diving. Emphasis is on student participation and practical application of knowledge in open water after a classroom discussion of subjects. This course is an excellent progression toward NAUI Leadership roles.

Some subject areas are a review and expansion of material from previous courses. Each subject area is a progression in study not a definitive study in the particular diving activity. However, instructors will specify performance objectives for related course diving activities, for example, during a navigation dive the student will swim a reciprocal course to within 10 feet (3 m) of its origin.

The course may be divided and taught in sections with the student’s Diving/Training Log being signed off for each activity until all requirements are met.

Upon successful completion of this course, graduates are considered competent to engage in open water diving activities without supervision, provided the diving activities and the areas dived approximate those of training.

Open water Dives
A minimum of eight open water dives is required. A maximum of three dives per day shall be applied toward course requirements. No more than one skin dive may count toward the eight dive minimum.

Required Dives

•Emergency procedures and rescue
•Deep/simulated decompression diving
•Limited visibility or night diving
•Underwater navigation
•Search and recovery – light salvage

Elective Dives

•Skin diving
•Review of basic scuba skills
•Environmental study or survey
•Air consumption (practical application)
•Boat diving
•Shore diving
•Hunting and collecting
•Special interest

Prerequisites For Entering This Course

•Age - Minimum is 15 years.
•Diver Certification - NAUI advanced certification or the equivalent is required. The instructor is to ensure adequate student knowledge and capability before any open water training and shall use skill or other evaluations to do so.
•Equipment - Students shall furnish and be responsible for the care and maintenance of their own diving equipment. The instructor shall initially assist the student in checking all student gear to insure it is adequate and in proper working order.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You also need to understand that NAUI Instructors are free to, and encouraged to, add or increase requirements and test on them as they deem necessary to benefit the student. Ie they may elect to increase the number of dives, require both fresh and saltwater experience, and have demonstration quality skills before passing the student.

 

[Thalassamania]

A NAUI Master Diver can mean a lot of different things, for example it might be the exit credential from a Scripps Model Course or a Navy course or it may only mean that the student has "honed your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader" just as a PADI MSD may mean that the student has "honed your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader" or, as Walter and Jim demonstrated, it may mean nothing almost at all. So, as you can see, there is a great deal of difference between the least that the PADI cert means and the most that the NAUI cert means with a small overlap in the area of "professional NAUI Leader." But so what, who cares?

 

[Mike Boswell]

You also need to understand that NAUI Instructors are free to, and encouraged to, add or increase requirements and test on them as they deem necessary to benefit the student. Ie they may elect to increase the number of dives, require both fresh and saltwater experience, and have demonstration quality skills before passing the student.

Jim, thanks for the specific information. The NAUI MSD course has changed since I took it in 1982, so it was helpful for me to get your perspective.

Having taken both the PADI and NAUI MSD courses, I do see some variation, but I truly don't see a "vast" difference. Both agencies require AOW and Rescue and five or so specialty courses. Both offer a mix of tough courses and "softer" courses.

I believe any diver who goes through either of these programs is likely to have studied (maybe 95 percent) the same material. And that material is what is necessary for a basic understanding of recreational scuba.

Often, we read here on SB that "It is the Instructor, not the Agency". IMO that is true. I have been lucky in my life to have had great instructors, and I owe them a lot, and these agency arguments diminish the role and the value of the instructor.

 

[Mike Boswell]

A NAUI Master Diver can mean a lot of different things, for example it might be the exit credential from a Scripps Model Course or a Navy course or it may only mean that the student has "honed your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader" just as a PADI MSD may mean that the student has "honed your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader" or, as Walter and Jim demonstrated, it may mean nothing almost at all. So, as you can see, there is a great deal of difference between the least that the PADI cert means and the most that the NAUI cert means with a small overlap in the area of "professional NAUI Leader." But so what, who cares?[/QUOTE]

I guess we do - otherwise we'd be doing something productive.

IMO a fair comparison of the two programs shows that they are very similar. I have no axe to grind in this as I have done both programs.