BC manufacturers must be Raking it in...

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Originally Posted by Hank49
You're the expert. But I look at my Pioneer 27 and my kid's school backpacks....material wise, there can't be a huge difference in price. The Pioneer is heavier material, has a bladder....that leaks in my case, and the fittings for the inflator and dump releases. The backpacks have multiple compartments and zippers and padded shoulder straps etc. The Pioneer was over $300. $150 will get a very nice backpack.
If you cranked out 4000 wings per day, it would drop your production cost. That's all I'm saying.

Larger volumes would allow some cost savings, but not at much as you might expect.

Sewing and RF welding and of course final assembly are highly manual operations.

That's why these industries have largely migrated to points of lower labor cost. If it was possible to automate these functions then economies of scale would be easier to realize.

Tobin

There are very few things that can't be automated. The issue is the cost of doing it. The short answer is that where there exists sufficient volumes to support automation, you design the product for automated processes. Often, trying to automate a process designed as a manual process is little more than expensive folly but you still might be surprised at times. Assumming adequate volumes, there is almost always an elegant solution available to one of sufficient talent and imagination.

There are some products/oporations well suited to "cheap labor" however, I have seen MANY moved to points of low labor cost only because it was easy for someone with no talent to come up with.

In one case, I spent a couple of million automating two Eaton switch lines (products some said couldn't be automated, BTW). Shortly after the automation was up and running, they closed the plant moved it to Mexico. The automation now sits down there in a corner replaced with a bunch of people. Guess what they saved by moving? NOTHING. It takes them 10 times the number of people to do the same thing and they get no return on the cost to automate in the first place.
 
There are very few things that can't be automated. The issue is the cost of doing it. The short answer is that where there exists sufficient volumes to support automation, you design the product for automated processes. Often, trying to automate a process designed as a manual process is little more than expensive folly but you still might be surprised at times. Assumming adequate volumes, there is almost always an elegant solution available to one of sufficient talent and imagination.

I agree. My daily battle is selecting those processes where it makes sense to invest my time and money in reducing the labor content. Sometimes I can justify investing in labor saving tooling if doing so has other benefits, improved quality, or improved process stability. Classic example would be die cutting fabric vs cutting with shears or a fabric saw. The cutting die cost money to build, but the benefit is absolute consistency and perhaps less labor cost. Somebody still has to run the clicker press.

There are some products/opperations well suited to "cheap labor" however, I have seen MANY moved to points of low labor cost only because it was easy for someone with no talent to come up with.

I agree here too. Trust me, if we weren't daily employing clever, "Lean" methods there's no chance we could be producing BC's in Pasadena California at a profit.

In one case, I spent a couple of million automating two Eaton switch lines (products some said couldn't be automated, BTW). Shortly after the automation was up and running, they closed the plant moved it to Mexico. The automation now sits down there in a corner replaced with a bunch of people. Guess what they saved by moving? NOTHING. It takes them 10 times the number of people to do the same thing and they get no return on the cost to automate in the first place.

Not all management is created equal....

Tobin
 
If Tobin had a manufacturing process that would "crank out 4000 wings per day', he would have to watch it carefully. Let it run just a little too long, and he would manufacture the ENTIRE WORLDS ANNUAL SUPPLY of wings in very short order.

The scuba industry simply has no volume against which to ammortize the opportunity and tooling/fixture cost. As a result, we will ALWAYS have to have a higher burden on EACH scuba item manufactured.

Phil Ellis

I fully understand that and that's the point I was trying to make. BCs cost a lot because they aren't mass manufactured at maximized economies of scale. Overhead costs go up, made in America raises the prices etc etc. I'm not complaining about the price either. :D
 
I fully understand that and that's the point I was trying to make. BCs cost a lot because they aren't mass manufactured at maximized economies of scale. Overhead costs go up, made in America raises the prices etc etc. I'm not complaining about the price either. :D


My understanding is that most BCs are mass manufactured at a very small number of BCD manufacturing facilities. Most seem to have a label of "Made in Mexico". These facilities may assemble Scubapro BCs one week and Aqualung the next. The smaller mfgrs like Tobin are an exception.
 
My understanding is that most BCs are mass manufactured at a very small number of BCD manufacturing facilities. Most seem to have a label of "Made in Mexico". These facilities may assemble Scubapro BCs one week and Aqualung the next. The smaller mfgrs like Tobin are an exception.

You are basically correct.

As far as I am aware, only DeepSeasupply and Halcyon build (cut and sew + RF weld + assemble) their own inflatables in house.

All others, that I am aware of, use contact manufacturers for some or all of these functions. Some or all of these functions are performed "offshore" by most of the contract manufacturers.

Tobin
 
You paid $650 because it had an H on it :wink: Like I said, people will pay it so the manufacturers will charge it. I can go to my LDS and buy a Zeagle backplate and wing system for a lot less than a Zeagle BC. You can go to Tobin's website and buy a DSS BP/W for a lot less than $650. Not all of the BP/W's out there cost the same as a Halcyon.

That is because Halcyon makes the best equipment. Like Halcyon's price tags at the LDS indicate "*World Record Not Included."

Name one other manufacturer that can claim their equipment smoked the end of the line in Wakulla Springs. There are none. DSS can't claim that. Neither can anyone else.
 
This is a little off topic, but actually it may be right on the mark.............

The only way we will see innovation and price reduction is through the exercise of INCREASING THE NUMBER OF NEW DIVERS. There is NOTHING else that will work. Unless we are able to do that, we will see fewer local dive stores, fewer new designed from the few manufactures we currently have, fewer opportunities for resale competitiveness.

While the internet is providing resale cost competition not previously seen, THAT will come to an end if we continue to see the number of divers decrease each year. Someone MUST do something about the new diver certification rate.

Related, DEMA and PADI refused to sponsor Diver Down Motorsports Team Scuba race car. I think this was the MOST short-sighted decision I have ever seen. This has nothing to do with liking NASCAR. It has to do with tapping into a gigantic market of people whose spending profiles very much match that of the scuba industry. Again, the exposure that simply leading a couple of Bush East races on television could create would exceed EVERYTHING DEMA has ever done to improve diver certifications. DEMA, shame on you.

Phil Ellis
 
This is a little off topic, but actually it may be right on the mark.............

The only way we will see innovation and price reduction is through the exercise of INCREASING THE NUMBER OF NEW DIVERS. There is NOTHING else that will work. Unless we are able to do that, we will see fewer local dive stores, fewer new designed from the few manufactures we currently have, fewer opportunities for resale competitiveness.

While the internet is providing resale cost competition not previously seen, THAT will come to an end if we continue to see the number of divers decrease each year. Someone MUST do something about the new diver certification rate.

Related, DEMA and PADI refused to sponsor Diver Down Motorsports Team Scuba race car. I think this was the MOST short-sighted decision I have ever seen. This has nothing to do with liking NASCAR. It has to do with tapping into a gigantic market of people whose spending profiles very much match that of the scuba industry. Again, the exposure that simply leading a couple of Bush East races on television could create would exceed EVERYTHING DEMA has ever done to improve diver certifications. DEMA, shame on you.

Phil Ellis

I don't know how much inovation we need and most of it I've seen in the time I've been diving is a bunch of pretty colored useless junk. As far as growth, the dive sites are messed up enough as far as I'm concerned. If hey want to keep pumping out tons of new divers every year, they might consider teaching them something about diving before they certify them. You can certify as many as you want but if you can't keep some of them around you aren't going to get anyplace.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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