BC manufacturers must be Raking it in...

[Hank49]

A $350 wing or bc that lasts 1000 dives....$.30 per dive....not bad.
Back packs are similar in material and probably cost but are a lot less to the buyer, but thousands...perhaps millions... more are sold to about every high school and college student in the US and all over the world. As others stated, S and D.
I bought a set of fuel injectors for my outboard....3 pieces of plastic that couldn't have cost more than $.50 in material....for $175. Same thing.

 

[ianr33]

This is one instance where GROWTH in the number of participants for scuba diving is so important. Without growth in the industry, we will not likely see lower prices and innovative products at the local scuba store.

I would not mind paying more for gear if the trade off was less people diving.

 

[redacted]

Just curious ... what would those be?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Eliminate regional distributors and wholesale direct to retailers.

Eliminate some of the global distributors and have retailers buy direct from the actual manufacturers (like masks from Thailand) rather than the guy who puts his name on the product.

Eliminate anti-competetion policies.

 

[cool_hardware52]

A $350 wing or bc that lasts 1000 dives....$.30 per dive....not bad.
Back packs are similar in material and probably cost but are a lot less to the buyer, but thousands...perhaps millions... more are sold to about every high school and college student in the US and all over the world. As others stated, S and D.
I bought a set of fuel injectors for my outboard....3 pieces of plastic that couldn't have cost more than $.50 in material....for $175. Same thing.

Hank,

Your analogy is flawed. A BC and Book / DayPack might at first blush seem similar, but there are distinct differences.

Most BackPacks use "packcloth" which is 1000 denier nylon (or lighter) with a PVC coating, not urethane.

Backpacks do not have any of the "plumbing" associated with a BC, inflators, hoses, OPV's thru bladder fittings. These add cost both in terms of material costs, and also add to the assembly costs.

Backpacks do not have anywhere the same liability concerns.

Backpacks do not involve any RF welding, and the cost of the associated equipment and dies.

Tobin

 

[redacted]

A $350 wing or bc that lasts 1000 dives....$.30 per dive....not bad.

Not bad until you realize you could have done the same thing for half that price and make it $0.175 per dive.

But I still bend down to pick up pennies, so maybe I'm the oddball.

 

[Hank49]

Hank,

Your analogy is flawed. A BC and Book / DayPack might at first blush seem similar, but there are distinct differences.

Most BackPacks use "packcloth" which is 1000 denier nylon (or lighter) with a PVC coating, not urethane.

Backpacks do not have any of the "plumbing" associated with a BC, inflators, hoses, OPV's thru bladder fittings. These add cost both in terms of material costs, and also add to the assembly costs.

Backpacks do not have anywhere the same liability concerns.

Backpacks do not involve any RF welding, and the cost of the associated equipment and dies.

Tobin

You're the expert. But I look at my Pioneer 27 and my kid's school backpacks....material wise, there can't be a huge difference in price. The Pioneer is heavier material, has a bladder....that leaks in my case, and the fittings for the inflator and dump releases. The backpacks have multiple compartments and zippers and padded shoulder straps etc. The Pioneer was over $300. $150 will get a very nice backpack.
If you cranked out 4000 wings per day, it would drop your production cost. That's all I'm saying.

 

[cool_hardware52]

You're the expert. But I look at my Pioneer 27 and my kid's school backpacks....material wise, there can't be a huge difference in price. The Pioneer is heavier material, has a bladder....that leaks in my case, and the fittings for the inflator and dump releases. The backpacks have multiple compartments and zippers and padded shoulder straps etc. The Pioneer was over $300. $150 will get a very nice backpack.
If you cranked out 4000 wings per day, it would drop your production cost. That's all I'm saying.

Larger volumes would allow some cost savings, but not at much as you might expect.

Sewing and RF welding and of course final assembly are highly manual operations.

That's why these industries have largely migrated to points of lower labor cost. If it was possible to automate these functions then economies of scale would be easier to realize.

Tobin

 

[Doc]

Most BackPacks.....

Most, but... let's compare apples to apples....How's $300 grab you?

BlackHawk! Products, 100oz X-3 R.A.P.T.O.R. Pack BLACKHAWK ! *100oz X-3 R.A.P.T.O.R. Pack

Ranger Assault Pack Tactical Operations Ruck
(Includes HydraStorm® 100oz. Hydration System!)

The latest in free fall and static line jumpable packs, the X3 R.A.P.T.O.R. is made with heavy-duty 1000 denier nylon with quad-stitched seams and trim-taped edges. This ruck has it all! The main compartment has three securing cinch straps, two horizontal and one centered vertically. Drain holes are provided for each compartment for maximum efficiency during maritime operations.

• Includes 100 oz. HydraStorm™ Hydration System (that would be the BC bladder, with rf welds)
• Ventilating back panel
• Built-in jump harness with heavy-duty parachute
webbing
• Built-in drop line pouch and routing system
• Fully accessible main compartment
• Silent zipper pulls
• Webbing on outside of pack for modular gear
attachment
Lawyer free and made in Vietnam.

1000 denier aside, this thing has all the features of a BC. BlackHawk is known to be the second highest price in the industry, right under Tactical Tailor and Eagle. I really don't know what to make of the above, just that it's a fair comparison.

I might be a bad source of information, my first BC was a stolen airline life jacket (with co2 cylinders!) cable tied to an Aqualung plastic contoured backplate. Primitive? Yes, but it worked... well enough to foster a design basis.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Most, but... let's compare apples to apples....How's $300 grab you?

BlackHawk! Products, 100oz X-3 R.A.P.T.O.R. Pack BLACKHAWK ! *100oz X-3 R.A.P.T.O.R. Pack

Ranger Assault Pack Tactical Operations Ruck
(Includes HydraStorm® 100oz. Hydration System!)

The latest in free fall and static line jumpable packs, the X3 R.A.P.T.O.R. is made with heavy-duty 1000 denier nylon with quad-stitched seams and trim-taped edges. This ruck has it all! The main compartment has three securing cinch straps, two horizontal and one centered vertically. Drain holes are provided for each compartment for maximum efficiency during maritime operations.

• Includes 100 oz. HydraStorm™ Hydration System (that would be the BC bladder, with rf welds)
• Ventilating back panel
• Built-in jump harness with heavy-duty parachute
webbing
• Built-in drop line pouch and routing system
• Fully accessible main compartment
• Silent zipper pulls
• Webbing on outside of pack for modular gear
attachment
Lawyer free and made in Vietnam.

1000 denier aside, this thing has all the features of a BC. BlackHawk is known to be the second highest price in the industry, right under Tactical Tailor and Eagle. I really don't know what to make of the above, just that it's a fair comparison.

I might be a bad source of information, my first BC was a stolen airline life jacket (with co2 cylinders!) cable tied to an Aqualung plastic contoured backplate. Primitive? Yes, but it worked... well enough to foster a design basis.

To build our typical wing we use 1050 Ballistic Material, not 1000 denier.

A hydration bladder does require RF welding, it does not have an inflator hose, OPV, or LP hose, or the fittings associated with each. (I build hydration bladders also)

We offer a number of different wings from ~$290-$320, Built in the USA.

Tobin

 

[PhilEllis]

..........If you cranked out 4000 wings per day, it would drop your production cost. That's all I'm saying.........

If Tobin had a manufacturing process that would "crank out 4000 wings per day', he would have to watch it carefully. Let it run just a little too long, and he would manufacture the ENTIRE WORLDS ANNUAL SUPPLY of wings in very short order.

The scuba industry simply has no volume against which to ammortize the opportunity and tooling/fixture cost. As a result, we will ALWAYS have to have a higher burden on EACH scuba item manufactured.

Phil Ellis