Opinion: Diving without a DM (or instructor, etc.)

[Jerryg]

I've now logged 60 dives and only 4 of them have been without a DM or Instructor. Both my wife and I are "tourists" and not SCUBA enthusiasts. As a result of that we want to see as many things as we can on every dive. The best way for us is to have a DM guide us and show us the local sites. I expect to dive more without DMs as I begin to explore some of the Great Lakes' Wrecks.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I'm a little curious about doing the last dive in the OW class without an instructor. Was this 'legal' in that certifying organization? The ones I'm familiar with, the instuctor MUST be with the student during the OW course.
www.letsdiveguam.com

I'm a SSI instructor. We do a minimum of 5 open water checkout dives. The 5th dive is considered a navigation dive and we don't have to do along with the students. We expect them to plan their dive and dive their plan. What I do is tailgate them throughout the dive to make sure my students get back to a safe spot. If they have trouble with navigation we go over it again afterwards. Quite often at this point they sign up for the navigation class.

Where I do checkout dives natural navigation is very easy as there is a submerged road to follow or it's a matter of upstream/downstream. You'd still be surprised how often the new divers get turned around.

If you are uncomfortable after checkouts and need either a dive leader or experienced diver to go along with you, then by all means do exactly that. Don't be ashamed to ask for help.

 

[Bretagne]

KimLeece,
This is only the NDL. The whole tables go to 65m (in case of problem at 60 and you had to go lower), but I have several pages of tables and I cannot post them all here.
You can have a look at the whole tables here (warning: in French) http://www.blueocean.ws/formations/ffessm/table mn90.htm

With the longest time scheduled at 60m (20 mn), the table gives:
20mn at 60 m, 3mn at 9m, 8mn at 6m, 32 mn at 3m, total time for going up 47 mn (add the 20 mn down time), group L. Note that some lower tables give a higher group because allowed down time is a lot higher.
Of course with my 12 l bottle, I could not dive this profile! Air must be planned! And as it is not an RGBM model, I would add intermediate deep stops... that have to be included in the 20 mn of down time if I still use these tables.
To summarise: you are allowed to have a quick look at this deep wreck... not to stay a long time to visit it! And if ever you go lower than 60m, no more dive in the day!
Note that these are designed for people without computer, just timer and gauge (needle gauge: no fast ascent warning -> you control your ascent speed from the bubbles)

but that's what nitrox is for, no?

At these depth, I think that air is safer than nitrox! (and less expensive). But still unsafe due to narcosis, i agree. To dive there (something I will probably never do), i would prefer to learn to use trimix.

Now in our training for level 2, we have learned:
-to use these tables for single dives.
-to use them for successiive dives (surface interval between 15mn and 12 hours)
-to use them for bounce dives (surface interval shorter than 15 mn)... exam exercise was a bounce dive after successive ones... you quickly understand why to avoid bounce dives!
-how to use the tables if you go up lower than requested speeds (which is what you use if you add deeper stops)
-what to do if you have missed or shortened a safety stop, but gone up at proper speed (provided that there is not yet an health emergency which prevents you to stay underwater), how to use the tables in this case
-what to do and how to use the tables if you have gone up too fast (again, with no health emergency)

Do not forget also that we do not dive on coral reefs. Place where you can do interesting really shallow dives are not so numerous, plus we can have huge tides at some places -depth for what you want to see can change quite a lot from morning to afternoon!
Now to dive 3 or 4 tanks in a day... as i only have a 7+5 wet suit, i would be too cold where I usually dive (water 11 C last week, 15 C in summer). If I had to dive on coral reefs in tropical waters, I would by a computer with an algorithm which allows more than 2 dives!

 

[dani_p]

my second dive after my open water classes were done was a boat dive for my advanced course (at a wreck). I was terrified once we got down there and I swear I missed the whole ship. We were under for about 10 minuites before I wanted out- Not a pleast first memory off a boat. I definitly reccomend doing some easy dives first- do what youre comfortable with! if that means taking a DM then do it! Im sure they wouldnt mind doing some easy dives to have a confident future dive buddy!

 

[Iruka]

Thanks Al...I'm not familiar with the SSI standards, but if the instructor is with the divers for the 1st 4 dives, then it's comparable to other organizations I'm more familiar with. Personally, my last 4,740-some dives have been without a guide/instructor (unless I count myself, ha ha) but I was curious about the "last OW dive without an instructor present" statement because of an incident 20 or so years ago during my AOW course, where the instructor talked us out of doing the required night dive, basically because it was cold out! and said that "it's dark in the shipwreck, so that's just like doing a night dive in the day." I didn't know any better way back when.

 

[scubapolly]

My question is about diving without a DM (or instructor of the like): At what level of experience (generally) is it OK?

I somewhat disagree with the general view of the posts. While you are certainly within the limits of your certification to make dives without an instructor or a divemaster. The fact that you are asking the question makes me think that you are a bit nervous about the venture. There are a couple of questions that you should consider before making these dives:
1. have I (and my buddy) dove under similar conditions
2. are we familiar with the dive site (potential hazards, marine life, etc.)
3. Will their be other divers/people around?
4. Would you/ your buddy know how to react and be able to act in an emergency?

If the answer to all of these questions are yes, then have a great dive. Otherwise, I would seek the company of a more experienced diver.

 

[WaterDawg]

Here on Okinawa it is RARE to dive w/ a DM (except on a boat...but a very small percent of our dives are on boats). My first dive w/o a DM or instr was my first dive out of class. I think anyone can teach you to dive w/ a DM or guide but a real (not even good just avarage) class should teach you the skils you need to dive in conditions similar to those youwere trained in w/ another O/W diver.

 

[sunserious1984]

My question is about diving without a DM (or instructor of the like): At what level of experience (generally) is it OK? That is assuming one is diving within one's physical means. I have friends getting their OW soon and they'd like to do some beach dives by themselves afterwards. The dives they have picked out are easy dives (they'd be good for OW classes), so it seems to me that it would be OK -- but I'm not sure what the general consensus is (I myself didn't do any dives without a DM or instructor until after my AOW).

Thanks in advance for the opinions!

I think you should have 3 to 4 years of experience for diving without DM.Diving is really a difficult job.I have been in this field for about 10 years.

You should have brave hearts for diving.I have seen many videos related to diving and other water sports at http://www.splashvision.com which will really help you for your successful future in diving.

 

[shotthebreeze]

Like everyone has said, with the proper training, you should be alright. If you're questioning your ability, but don't really want to dive with a DM for some reason, just grab an experienced buddy who knows the area you will be diving in. I find that it's easier to teach myself for some reason, DMs and Instructors are wonderful, but sometimes they hinder my performance if they try to correct me constantly.

 

[DeNomad]

Personally I started diving without instructors (at least in the offical role) right away. Just find a dive buddy, preferably more experienced to start out with. Just go within your limitations.

First two dives think I went down to the 40' range, saw the sights of the lake, was about 5 celsius. The next week came back with another buddy, went down a bit deeper and the water was 0 degrees celisus (that's freezing temp btw) in a wetsuit. No problems, was completely comfortable with everything.

If you don't feel confident in what you are going to dive, plan the dive differently.