Question How to practice deco ascents?

[ChuckP]

You can do a whole lot of simulation during any dive at any depth and there is no need for the punishment to your sinuses. Yes it does get more difficult in the last 30', last 20' but I'm not yo yoing no way!!!

40-60' depths are great to stay within working on tasks....

This is just an impression I get from some folks - they make so much out of things and it just seems to me it gets in their head too much. Get great at individual tasks at anytime during a dive - get fantastic at them - get so good at them that they become second nature and you don't think about them - know where you have things stowed or clipped. Where is your upper right d ring, your lower left - don't feel for it - move your hand directly too it. Light change, smb deployment whatever - you should be able to do those things while cooking dinner and reading a book - do you think about walking?? You don't and these simple individual tasks that might need done, you shouldn't think about those either.

Touching a dring, unclipping a spool - do those all the time and get that to become second nature becuase then when you have to do three things at once while holding at 20' becomes easy.... It really does..

 

[steinbil]

You can do a whole lot of simulation during any dive at any depth and there is no need for the punishment to your sinuses. Yes it does get more difficult in the last 30', last 20' but I'm not yo yoing no way!!!

40-60' depths are great to stay within working on tasks....

This is just an impression I get from some folks - they make so much out of things and it just seems to me it gets in their head too much. Get great at individual tasks at anytime during a dive - get fantastic at them - get so good at them that they become second nature and you don't think about them - know where you have things stowed or clipped. Where is your upper right d ring, your lower left - don't feel for it - move your hand directly too it. Light change, smb deployment whatever - you should be able to do those things while cooking dinner and reading a book - do you think about walking?? You don't and these simple individual tasks that might need done, you shouldn't think about those either.

Touching a dring, unclipping a spool - do those all the time and get that to become second nature becuase then when you have to do three things at once while holding at 20' becomes easy.... It really does..

I definitely agree with practicing the motor skills, and I do live by it, but at this stage of my diving I recognize that one of the major things I need to improve before I venture into tech diving is the same level of comfort and control when it comes to the technique of controlling ascent speeds and accurately stopping at desired depths from different speeds, at different depths. And it's hard to do that practice without actually ascending...

I can clip off my primary regulator and switch to my backup without thinking, I do flow checks every 10min without interrupting my dive or losing situational awareness. I can do a valve drill in trim while hovering. I want to have the same confidence controlling my ascent speed in a bluewater ascent with little other reference than my buddy and my bubbles, without spending all my situational awareness staring at my computer/depth gauge. I want to trust that I can hold a stop without checking my depth every 5 seconds. Because if I can't, I don't see how I can deal with more equipment, more task loading, helping my team, handling emergencies while having a deco obligation.

So my conclusion is I have to practice ascents, as much as I can.

 

[BlueTrin]

@steinbil one thing you can do is move up or down by one meter when you do a drill.

For example do a drill on platform at 6m, next drill you do it at 5m, then next one at 6m … etc

You probably know this drill, but the 1m at a time ascent from 6m is really good to finish a training dive.

For checking your depth, one trick you can use is to look at your computer with the wrist in front of you (not under you) so you can see your buddy in front of you in your peripheral vision: that helps to see if you are moving above or under him while you read your computer.

 

[Ayisha]

...Follow-up question: can 2 divers do a valve drill in 30secs?

A single tank valve drill, sure, but not doubles.

I think if you treat it the same way as when you trained, when one person is designated for each task (signalling next depth; going OOG or donating; deploying SMB or monitoring depth, time, and ascent line, etc.) for one ascent and you might switch roles for the next ascent. So you could do a valve drill on one ascent, and if your buddy would like to practice as well, they could on the next ascent.

@steinbil one thing you can do is move up or down by one meter when you do a drill...

...For checking your depth, one trick you can use is to look at your computer with the wrist in front of you (not under you)...

These are great suggestions. When I practiced for Fundies with the GUE intern, we did 2 foot ascents/descents in a pool. (He uses metric and although we're in Canada, I use imperial for diving. Go figure.) When we sometimes practiced in shallow lakes or rivers, we did 2 foot or 5 foot increments. You can adapt what you're practicing to the environment.

I was also taught to have my arms straight out in front of me at eye level so that I could see my computer and teammate(s) at the same time. That comes in especially handy when someone has been designated to "disappear" from your line of sight or you're monitoring your team's position relative to a line in a current, which you can move or twirl away from fast.

I want to have the same confidence controlling my ascent speed in a bluewater ascent with little other reference than my buddy and my bubbles, without spending all my situational awareness staring at my computer/depth gauge.

Be cautious relying on your buddy for a depth reference. Trust a little, but verify. When task loading hits the fan, a buddy who was solid when not under pressure, can go haywire. You'll be expected to not follow, but to signal them to get back to the target depth/position, etc.

Keep your practicing fun!

 

[ChuckP]

I definitely agree with practicing the motor skills, and I do live by it, but at this stage of my diving I recognize that one of the major things I need to improve before I venture into tech diving is the same level of comfort and control when it comes to the technique of controlling ascent speeds and accurately stopping at desired depths from different speeds, at different depths. And it's hard to do that practice without actually ascending...

I can clip off my primary regulator and switch to my backup without thinking, I do flow checks every 10min without interrupting my dive or losing situational awareness. I can do a valve drill in trim while hovering. I want to have the same confidence controlling my ascent speed in a bluewater ascent with little other reference than my buddy and my bubbles, without spending all my situational awareness staring at my computer/depth gauge. I want to trust that I can hold a stop without checking my depth every 5 seconds. Because if I can't, I don't see how I can deal with more equipment, more task loading, helping my team, handling emergencies while having a deco obligation.

So my conclusion is I have to practice ascents, as much as I can.

This doesn't work for you initial ascent but it will for the every 3m ones:

You are neutral at a stop right? How many froggy type gentle kicks does it take to go 3m and how fast do you kick? Yes do your stop in trim but kick up to your next stop - it makes it an almost no thinking task. 5 kicks, look at your computer or whatever. You will never acurately evaluate your ascent speed while you are doing it unless you have a timer. You want to practice? Do it in 40-50' of water, repetitively go from 50-40, don't go any shallower - stay neutral and just keep practicing.

I'm always negative at stops because I hang from a SMB, I count kicks but vary them because I just don't care - I count windings on a spool because it's easier for me and I can hit that pretty consistent.

 

[steinbil]

This doesn't work for you initial ascent but it will for the every 3m ones:

You are neutral at a stop right? How many froggy type gentle kicks does it take to go 3m and how fast do you kick? Yes do your stop in trim but kick up to your next stop - it makes it an almost no thinking task. 5 kicks, look at your computer or whatever. You will never acurately evaluate your ascent speed while you are doing it unless you have a timer. You want to practice? Do it in 40-50' of water, repetitively go from 50-40, don't go any shallower - stay neutral and just keep practicing.

I'm always negative at stops because I hang from a SMB, I count kicks but vary them because I just don't care - I count windings on a spool because it's easier for me and I can hit that pretty consistent.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I aim to be as neutral as possible during the ascent, initiating the ascent with breath control and staying in trim the entire time, and I try not to move my fins at all (unless I have to reposition). It's very hard to stay in a team formation or on a line if I'm kicking/moving too much. That's actually one of the things I'm still trying to get better at, as I sometimes start kicking/moving my fins too much when I'm task loaded...

 

[ChuckP]

So you are going to breathe yourself up 3m shooting for a perfect time and a dead on stop at a certain depth...... How do you do your initial ascent breathe yourself from 70m to 30m? There is no way, you will be way to slow getting off the bottom.

From an efficiency of deco point of view, anything that slows you down on the bottom will add way more time then being slow at your stops........

You guys really need to learn how to have fun........ I'm sorry, that whole structured rigid system just is no way for me.....

 

[Lorenzoid]

@steinbil , you sound like you're very hard on yourself. I'm guessing you haven't updated the dive count on your SB profile (it still says "50-99") but even if you have done 200 dives by now it is normal not to have yet mastered the art of keeping the fins still while task loaded. At well over 600 dives, I still find myself moving my fins unconsciously when task loaded. Every time I am working with an instructor in a course or a coaching session they try to help me correct this, and I am concentrating as hard as I can, but it is still incredibly difficult for me. You are probably more talented than I am. Just give yourself time. Time and practice--as you clearly intend to do.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You guys really need to learn how to have fun........ I'm sorry, that whole structured rigid system just is no way for me.....

I think the rigidity of the system tends to attract a certain kind of obsessive personality. We complain about all the practice, to make tiny incremental "improvements" that probably don't even matter to a non-GUE diver, and yet we secretly love it. The harder I bang my head against the wall, the better it feels. No, not really. Sometimes I feel ready to quit and go dive a shallow coral reef in Cozumel with no goal but the proverbial returning to the boat with around 500 psi.

 

[steinbil]

So you are going to breathe yourself up 3m shooting for a perfect time and a dead on stop at a certain depth...... How do you do your initial ascent breathe yourself from 70m to 30m? There is no way, you will be way to slow getting off the bottom.

I have 0 experience diving deeper than 30m, but I guess it works pretty much the same way even if the pressure differentials are decreased: from neutral I inhale to start ascent, air in suit and wing expands as I ascend, so the speed increases until I start venting suit/wing to control speed or stop. The more positive I am, the faster I ascend, no finning required.

I admit I'm probably a little slow of the bottom from 30m, mostly because I'm not comfortable with the higher speeds and I vent prematurely since I'm worried about overshooting. I expect this is just a matter of more practice.

You guys really need to learn how to have fun........ I'm sorry, that whole structured rigid system just is no way for me.....

Oh I have plenty of fun! Like I said, different strokes. No judgement in that. Maybe it's not for everyone, but I thoroughly enjoy the process of self improvement and practicing technical skills to be able to do more advanced diving safely or simply because I like the feeling of freedom that better control over buoyancy and positioning in the water gives me when I'm doing shallow fun dives.