DIR- GUE GUE fundamentals, tec pass?

[CptTightPants21]

I know divers who took Rec3 and became divers better than before they took it, so point #3 stands true, period.

Regarding marketing, if you look at the market (TDI, IANTD, etc.) most agencies have recreational courses up to 40m/130ft. There are reasons, even if you may not agree with them. When I say that the course makes sense from a marketing point of view, what I mean is that it makes GUE more complete in the eyes of recreational divers, and therefore more appealing. As a consequence, more people are interested in taking the courses and potentially may spread the name of the agency around.

You mean they spent 5 days with a GUE instructor and came out better divers? Shocking. If they had spent 5 days working on their fundies skills they would have had a tech pass .

 

[ginti]

You mean they spent 5 days with a GUE instructor and came out better divers? Shocking. If they had spent 5 days working on their fundies skills they would have had a tech pass .

This statement is ridiculous. Some people take years to obtain a tec-pass, here we are speaking about 5 days.

What can I say? Well, you are right

 

[jadairiii]

And what are you going to get with optimum gas? 2 less minutes of deco? As if that really matter? It doesn't.

You get the “knowledge” of “doing it right” and not some half a** stop gap that makes no sense.

A mistake on a dive requiring 15min of deco on nx32 may end up with some troubles.
A mistake on a dive requiring 30min of deco on nx50 may end up with many more troubles.
Different risks -> different skills & different training.

This is “deep end/shallow end” thinking. Adding 15 min of deco does not require any additional skills or training.

….have the skills to dive an actual hyperoxic gas -.

This the 80% EAN logic. My daughter, recent Rec-1 diver, can hold 20' all day without a 1' change in the water column, gas she is breathing has no bearing on her buoyancy. (and having never used SCUBA in her life prior to the class). If a diver has made it all the way to Rec-3 and cant control buoyancy at 20'....well....I dont know what to tell you.

What other skills does one need to breath O2?

 

[rjack321]

You get the “knowledge” of “doing it right” and not some half a** stop gap that makes no sense.



This is “deep end/shallow end” thinking. Adding 15 min of deco does not require any additional skills or training.



This the 80% EAN logic. My daughter, recent Rec-1 diver, can hold 20' all day without a 1' change in the water column, gas she is breathing has no bearing on her buoyancy. (and having never used SCUBA in her life prior to the class). If a diver has made it all the way to Rec-3 and cant control buoyancy at 20'....well....I dont know what to tell you.

What other skills does one need to breath O2?

Shrugs I don't think Rec3 is just as good as T1 minus the EAN50 and O2.
The students are starting more unstable and from a rec pass. The course failures aren't as rigorous. The risks look less to the nervous not quite ready for prime time fundamentals level diver.

I consider Rec3 a $2000 way to get a GUE-F tech pass and they thrown in access to 21/35 for up to 130ft dives as a lure.

But I haven't taken Rec3 and my T1 course was 15 years ago.

 

[ginti]

This is “deep end/shallow end” thinking. Adding 15 min of deco does not require any additional skills or training.

Probably I have not very clear what you mean with “deep end/shallow end” thinking... What do you mean exactly?

 

[seeker242]

You get the “knowledge” of “doing it right” and not some half a** stop gap that makes no sense.

And you have taken Rec 3 so now you know it doesn't give you that knowledge? Or are you just making that part up? I'll bet it's the latter.

Adding 15 min of deco does not require any additional skills or training.

Which would mean Rec 3 training is perfectly fine for those dives and there's no need to take T1 to begin with..

[This the 80% EAN logic. My daughter, recent Rec-1 diver, can hold 20' all day without a 1' change in the water column, gas she is breathing has no bearing on her buoyancy. (and having never used SCUBA in her life prior to the class). If a diver has made it all the way to Rec-3 and cant control buoyancy at 20'....well....I dont know what to tell you.What other skills does one need to breath O2?

And this is no logic. Why would you need to access what isn't even necessary to begin with? Well, logic dictates that you wouldn't... So, in essence, you're being bamboozled out of what? 2-3 minutes? So what, who cares. It doesn't matter. And if it doesn't matter, then logic would dictate there is no bamboozle to begin with.

The very definition of the word bamboozle is to cheat somebody out of something that they need or want. If you get everything you need and everything you want from doing Rec 3 then by definition you’re not being cheated and then by definition there is no bamboozle to begin with. It is literally impossible to cheat somebody out of something that they don’t even want or need to begin with. So where is the bamboozle? I’m still waiting to hear what it is.

Of course the answer to that question is that whether or not it’s a bamboozle is an entirely relative, subjective personal definition. One person might consider a bamboozle for themselves another person might not consider it a bamboozle for themselves and, depending on the person, they are both correct. The person who is paying the money is the one and only person who gets to decide whether or not they’ve been cheated. Nobody else, not you, not anyone, gets to decide that for them.

You think it’s a bamboozle therefore, for you personally, it would be. Another person doesn’t think that therefore it isn’t. It’s rather pretentious and arrogant to think you can speak for everyone.

 

[jadairiii]

And you have taken Rec 3 so now you know it doesn't give you that knowledge? Or are you just making that part up? I'll bet it's the latter.....

No I have not, nor have I taken a GUE Discover Diving course or the Recreational Supervised Diver course. All of which, including Rec 3, are classes that are completely unnecessary, IMHO. Add to that list, doubles primer and dry suit primer. But I have read the course materials, I know what is in the course and I base my opinion on that information.

Clearly you believe there is a value to Rec-3, good for you, take it, teach it, do whatever. But you wont convince me charging people to use 32% nitrox as a deco mix is a worthy course. It is a disservice at best to teach people to tech dive/mandatory deco on sub optimal gasses.

What's next for GUE Discover Diving-2 or -3? Recreational Supervised Diver-2 and -3? I'm sure they would give a person "knowledge".

And I am a "true believer" in GUE, having taken multiple GUE courses over the years and it was the only option for my daughter when she wanted to learn to dive.

 

[seeker242]

No I have not, nor have I taken a GUE Discover Diving course or the Recreational Supervised Diver course. All of which, including Rec 3, are classes that are completely unnecessary, IMHO.

The thing about that is that when you are not the one spending the money, you are also not the one who gets to decide that.

Clearly you believe there is a value to Rec-3, good for you, take it, teach it, do whatever.

Not true in the slightest. But clearly, you can't recognize a devil's advocate.

But you wont convince me charging people to use 32% nitrox as a deco mix is a worthy course. It is a disservice at best to teach people to tech dive/mandatory deco on sub optimal gasses.

I'm not trying to convince you. What I'm doing is showing that the arguments against it are not very reasonable, mostly just a bunch of hot air, and weak at best.

 

[RLima]

Sorry for the confusion in language, how did you find the course, as in did you like it? Did you find it useful for you?

Sorry about that.

I think everything was really great and I'm definitely a better diver with better dive theory knowledge, better trim, buyancy control and a working helicopter kick. Unfortunately no matter how hard I tried I could not make my back kick work and the stress of not getting it right messed up really bad my buyancy control in one of the dives. Besides my lack of technique / muscle memory I blame my fins that are soft and long (mares quattro style but slightly longer), so my plan is getting a tech fin and keep practicing.

Compared to the PADI courses I took so far, GUE is on another level. I was really impressed with the overal quality of the class, GUE high standards and the quality of instruction I received from Sergio Schirato. And not only that, several clues such as Sergio's involvement with academic research regarding decompression theory and Gareth Lock's involvement with GUE makes me reach the conclusion they really are at the cutting edge of diving.

 

[wKkaY]

I wouldn't take Rec 3, but I can see the appeal of it and why some of my friends took it. On a similar point, I took cavern with a different agency (CDAA) as a means of:

1) learning new skills (doubles, overhead protocols, dive site access, etc)

2) experiencing a new environment (freshwater diving and in caverns/sinkholes)

3) preparing myself for fundies tech pass and C1

All of which I did get, but what I wasn't expecting was to experience a very different training approach; one that was more about handling novel problems spontaneously (some might see it as hazing!).

When I decide to take T1, I will probably practice with peers in areas that I know I'm weak in. I have two friends who failed it, which has set the bar high for my pre-course expectations!