Taking an open water student below 60 ft?

[Ben_3]

My brother and I completed our OW referral on Cayman Brac in 2001. Our first dive as certified divers the next morning started with dropping to a swimthrough that began around 95' (iirc) and dumped us out at 106'. You mean this isn't normal?

Here's the details. It was a boat dive and our instructor was now the DM for the 6 people on the dive. He briefed on the swimthrough and let everyone know we could skip it.

In his defence he did offer to skip it! The right answer to that would be, you as a certified diver should not have planed to go on a dive past your training and cert level. He should have probably followed this as well. Now I do see your still alive so it's all good. Cheers!

 

[100days-a-year]

Fond memories of taking tanks with 02 in them to dive shops before there was a nitrox course. We never told them and they would have had no way to analyze them anyway. Of course, I've been dead this whole time, but the memories remain.
Sometimes , I think people overstate dangers just to appear more adventurous or knowledgeable.

 

[lowwall]

You didn't die?

Well, I don't see anything in the accidents forum.

 

[myshadeofred]

I agree...however, it's interesting the people can do "try dives" and will go to 30-40 feet...without a certification and what I think is minimal skills prep. They do it at almost resorts, and dive shops. I'm not saying it's right...I'm saying they do it.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree...however, it's interesting the people can do "try dives" and will go to 30-40 feet...without a certification and what I think is minimal skills prep. They do it at almost resorts, and dive shops. I'm not saying it's right...I'm saying they do it.

Yes. DSD/"try dives" is a whole other kettle of fish. Is the instructor to number of students ratio within standards? Even if so, is it safe for one instructor to have even two (let alone 4, I believe) people that have very minimal skills? I read somewhere that PADI said DSD incidents occur more often than in any other course. Not sure if that's true, but I'd believe it from some of the stuff I've been told and have read about.

 

[yle]

No, I have nothing against any persons or agencies in particular; but I do have animosity toward crass and cynical marketing efforts, aimed at the increasingly credulous consumer. When I was a teenager, the classes were, for the most part, one and f**king done.

"Dive Against Debris" trash collection specialty? Dear God, really? Out of curiosity, tally up what it would cost to take the lion's share of those idiotic courses.

Well, I'll never be able to flash that shiny Master Scuba Diver Card to impress the girls; never crack that . . . two percent who achieve PADI greatness. I'll just have to live with that -- diminished though I am.

Incidentally, about six percent of Navy Seal applicants qualify for the program; but, c'mon, the Navy cannot afford to be as exclusive as PADI . . .

No need to get so worked up. You have to keep in mind that PADI's target audience is people that have no knowledge of diving, and not someone like yourself that knows so much about diving that they've become jaded.

PADI gets people interested in diving with their, admittedly, ridiculous marketing. And that's important. Because it gets them started. And once they start diving, then they can get interested in learning what diving is really about. And eventually they can gain your exclusive level of knowledge, which, of course, is what every diver should aspire to.

So to give credit where credit is due, if it wasn't for PADI's silly marketing grabbing the attention of newbies, many people would never take the opportunity to become divers. We don't expect you to take the marketing seriously; but it does serve an important purpose. Just try not to take it so personally.

 

[yle]

I agree...however, it's interesting the people can do "try dives" and will go to 30-40 feet...without a certification and what I think is minimal skills prep. They do it at almost resorts, and dive shops. I'm not saying it's right...I'm saying they do it.

Yes... it happens all the time and people have a great time with it. But comparing DSD standards and OW course standards is apples and oranges. The only thing they really have in common is that they both happen in the water. The objective of the DSD program is completely different from the objective of the OW course program.

 

[yle]

I read somewhere that PADI said DSD incidents occur more often than in any other course. Not sure if that's true, but I'd believe it from some of the stuff I've been told and have read about.

You can, literally, read anything you want to read these days... that's what the internet is made for. Just because someone writes it doesn't mean it has any factual significance.

In fact, even what I've written here has little factual significance. People say what they want to say, people read what they want to read.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No need to get so worked up. You have to keep in mind that PADI's target audience is people that have no knowledge of diving, and not someone like yourself that knows so much about diving that they've become jaded.

PADI gets people interested in diving with their, admittedly, ridiculous marketing. And that's important. Because it gets them started. And once they start diving, then they can get interested in learning what diving is really about. And eventually they can gain your exclusive level of knowledge, which, of course, is what every diver should aspire to.

So to give credit where credit is due, if it wasn't for PADI's silly marketing grabbing the attention of newbies, many people would never take the opportunity to become divers. We don't expect you to take the marketing seriously; but it does serve an important purpose. Just try not to take it so personally.

My theory is that one reason why retention rates are so incredibly pure is partially due to the fact that most mainstream training is so poor with subjective standards instead of objective requirements, as well as so many students being placed on their knees and having zero buoyancy control after open water. When people start out diving and they are not skilled, they know it subconsciously. I say this on the statistically insignificant observations of my own retention rates when I started teaching (on the knees) versus today (never on the knees). No one corks/craters today. Pretty much everyone did when I started out. Instructors who teach on the knees who say that their students don't cork/crater are lying. I've dove with some of their students and they did exactly that every time.

 

[yle]

How many classes are they now expected to take, to reach the thirty meters, that we dove, back in the 1970s, in our initial open water class?. . .

Students need only take the OW course. They never have to take another class in order to dive to recreational limits. PADI encourages divers to take additional training, which can have a real benefit, as much as they wish. Some people like the idea of additional training and find value in paying for an instructor to share their experience, while some prefer to simply develop their experience on their own.

There is no agency telling students "you must take additional courses or we will not allow you to dive (to 30 meters or otherwise)!"

Take a deep breath. Everything is fine. Students are more than welcome to follow your lead, do exactly like you did back in the 70's. But they have greater options now, so they can choose alternative paths if they like.

Things change over decades. It's the way everything in life goes. Try not to take it so personally. No one is saying the way you did it is "wrong" just because there are more options available now.