Tipping in Key Largo???

[Wookie]

I have a question about DM tipping that can only be answered by people who are part of the system.

As I understand the law in the USA, a worker has to make at least minimum wage. In the case of waitstaff and others where tipping is common, employers are allowed to pay less than minimum wage on the theory that there will be tips, but if the tips do not bring the pay up to minimum wage, then the employer must make up the difference with higher pay.

I do a lot of diving in South Florida, and I usually hear the captain say something like "the DM works for tips" or "the DMs pay comes only from tips" in the hope that we will chip in generously. As I understand the law, that is illegal. This past winter I heard captains say several times something along the lines of "much (or some) of the DMs pay comes from tips." I had never heard that before, and it seems to me to be more in keeping with the law.

Can anyone who knows explain what is really happening in regard to these tips?

How can I like this a million times, but then, what would an open water class cost if you got minimum wage for teaching it?

So to give you one answer, the owner of the company is exempt from pesky laws like OSHA and DoL (in some cases, like 40 hour work week and minimum wage) regulations. So if the owner can teach a class for $2.34 an hour, why can't everyone?[//sarchasm] I personally would love to see minimum wage paid to crew and DMs. Federal Minimum wage for coxwains is $134 a day, OSs get $79, and there are others for cooks and etc. Cooks do better than coswains. I don't think I'm telling you anything, but a coxwain is a small vessel operator, an OS is an Ordinary Seaman, or deckhand. Dayrate crew is paid pretty poorly.

 

[Wookie]

Can't tell you what IS happening, but if they really do only get tips it is illegal. According to the US Department of Labor, they must get at least $2.13/hr plus enough tips to make the full $7.25. Otherwise, the employer is busting the law. I think there have been other threads about that where operations try to call boat workers "independent contractors" or some such.

Fact Sheet - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

It is illegal for boats to hire independent contractors, as it fails the rules test.

 

[boulderjohn]

It is illegal for boats to hire independent contractors, as it fails the rules test.

The same is true throughout America when scuba instructors are hired as independent contractors by dive shops. I would bet that in almost all such cases, it is against the law. According to the rules involved, those instructors are employees and must be treated as such.

 

[Key Largo Dive Center]

I have a question about DM tipping that can only be answered by people who are part of the system.

As I understand the law in the USA, a worker has to make at least minimum wage. In the case of waitstaff and others where tipping is common, employers are allowed to pay less than minimum wage on the theory that there will be tips, but if the tips do not bring the pay up to minimum wage, then the employer must make up the difference with higher pay.

I do a lot of diving in South Florida, and I usually hear the captain say something like "the DM works for tips" or "the DMs pay comes only from tips" in the hope that we will chip in generously. As I understand the law, that is illegal. This past winter I heard captains say several times something along the lines of "much (or some) of the DMs pay comes from tips." I had never heard that before, and it seems to me to be more in keeping with the law.

Can anyone who knows explain what is really happening in regard to these tips?

I can't speak for other dive boats. I know many other boats use interns instead of certified Divemasters or Instructors. My guides/Divemasters currently make $14/hr starting pay which is well above minimum wage. Whatever tips the crew makes is shared and it is very much appreciated.

 

[boulderjohn]

, but then, what would an open water class cost if you got minimum wage for teaching it?

I have been paid less than minimum wage for teaching classes. When you pay that big price for a class for a dive class, the overwhelming majority goes to the shop and its ownership. The instructor gets a tiny percentage. It is done differently in different places, but I have been most often been paid according to the number of students completing the course. IN my most recent such work experience, as the instructor with the most advanced certifications (etc.), I got all the specialty classes, which often drew only one or two students. A basic OWSI teaching a weekend pool session with a class of 8 students would make a reasonable pay. If instead I drove an hour to our OW site to work with two students for a full day class, I might be paid $15 per student, sometimes as much as $20. That comes to $30-$40 for a day's work teaching skills that could save a diver's life.

 

[Wookie]

I have been paid less than minimum wage for teaching classes. When you pay that big price for a class for a dive class, the overwhelming majority goes to the shop and its ownership. The instructor gets a tiny percentage. It is done differently in different places, but I have been most often been paid according to the number of students completing the course. IN my most recent such work experience, as the instructor with the most advanced certifications (etc.), I got all the specialty classes, which often drew only one or two students. A basic OWSI teaching a weekend pool session with a class of 8 students would make a reasonable pay. If instead I drove an hour to our OW site to work with two students for a full day class, I might be paid $15 per student, sometimes as much as $20. That comes to $30-$40 for a day's work teaching skills that could save a diver's life.

Yes, I am vehemently agreeing with you.

 

[boulderjohn]

I do have a question about how to tell how much tipping to do in my Key Largo experiences. I have trouble determining the degree of excellence upon which I should tip the DM. let me describe a 2-tank dive and get people's reactions.
1. I board the boat, carrying on my tanks and my gear.
2. I set up my gear. The DM asks if I need weight, but I do not.
3. The captain calls the roll.
4. I chat with my buddy about the upcoming dive as we head out.
5. At the dive site, the DM describes the site and tells us when to be back on the boat.
6. My buddy and I jump in, complete the dive, and return to the boat.
7. I hand up my fins to the DM, climb the ladder, and return to my seat.
8. The captain calls the roll.
7. I switch my gear over to the second tank as the boat heads for a new site.
8. Steps 4-8 are repeated.
9. I break down my gear and pack it up.
10. Back at the dock, I take my gear and my tanks off the boat.

So, in determining the level of tip provided for the service I received, would you call the DM's work standard or outstanding?

 

[Wookie]

No more outstanding than the waitress who:
1. Brings you water
2. Takes your drink order
3. Brings your drink order and takes your food order
4. Brings your food order in a reasonable time
5. Checks back shortly, refills your water glass, asks how your meal is
6. Comes back and clears your plate, refills your water, asks if you'd like dessert
7. Brings your check

Do you begrudge her 20%? I already know this answer. And, in diving, we've discussed that divemasters and instructors don't really earn a living wage unless they work for one of a very few companies, even if they are working illegally, as a subcontractor. Especially if they are working illegally as a subcontractor.

Again, some of us would rather be spoken well of than get tips, but tipping is a great way to keep score. On the Spree, we would sit down after the tip split and talk about what we did wrong, what we did right, why the tips were record high or what we had to do better next time.

 

[scubadada]

I do have a question about how to tell how much tipping to do in my Key Largo experiences. I have trouble determining the degree of excellence upon which I should tip the DM. let me describe a 2-tank dive and get people's reactions.
1. I board the boat, carrying on my tanks and my gear.
2. I set up my gear. The DM asks if I need weight, but I do not.
3. The captain calls the roll.
4. I chat with my buddy about the upcoming dive as we head out.
5. At the dive site, the DM describes the site and tells us when to be back on the boat.
6. My buddy and I jump in, complete the dive, and return to the boat.
7. I hand up my fins to the DM, climb the ladder, and return to my seat.
8. The captain calls the roll.
7. I switch my gear over to the second tank as the boat heads for a new site.
8. Steps 4-8 are repeated.
9. I break down my gear and pack it up.
10. Back at the dock, I take my gear and my tanks off the boat.

So, in determining the level of tip provided for the service I received, would you call the DM's work standard or outstanding?

That is what I expect and all I want or need, standard work. For me, that means $10/dive, about 20% of my cost for the trip, as I rent cylinders in FL.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If people stopped tipping at restaurants, waitresses would quit, and restaurants would have to offer more pay. If people stopped tipping on dive boats, divemasters would probably still show up for work.