How fit are you for a Rescue ?
- Thread starter Remy B.
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Don't know what you mean about other agencies not having logged dive requirements. PADI used to be 20. My opinion is that as soon as your diving is relatively decent (buoyancy, etc.) you should take Rescue. This SHOULD happen way before 40 dives. Otherwise, you have the situation of two brand new divers buddying up to dive to 60', neither having a clue about Rescue techniques. If you take the course, or even just read the manual, you have SOME knowledge of the skills.
If you are in a Technical dive with Deco obligations it will likely become a Body recovery scenario, you have 15min to start CPR on a victim after that chances are very small or successful, and chances of brain damage are higher.
Been thinking more about this thread.
For me, a major takeaway from Rescue, EFR, etc., was that it's better to do something than do nothing. Do whatever you can recall from your training to the best of your ability under the circumstances of the event. None of us is ever going to be perfect. Whether we lack physical strength, confidence, the ability to recall details of our training, the ability to stay calm under pressure, or whatever, each of us has our personal obstacles that are going to make our efforts less than perfect. You could train physically and mentally and practice your rescue skills forever, and while you will improve, you will never reach perfection. To put it another way, it's better to make do with what you have right now, and if a need arises, contribute whatever effort you are able to with what you have, than to wait until you reach some perceived threshold level of ability, whether that's physical ability or other.
For me, a major takeaway from Rescue, EFR, etc., was that it's better to do something than do nothing. Do whatever you can recall from your training to the best of your ability under the circumstances of the event. None of us is ever going to be perfect. Whether we lack physical strength, confidence, the ability to recall details of our training, the ability to stay calm under pressure, or whatever, each of us has our personal obstacles that are going to make our efforts less than perfect. You could train physically and mentally and practice your rescue skills forever, and while you will improve, you will never reach perfection. To put it another way, it's better to make do with what you have right now, and if a need arises, contribute whatever effort you are able to with what you have, than to wait until you reach some perceived threshold level of ability, whether that's physical ability or other.
dumpsterDiver
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A lot of problems occur on. Descent and during ascent or even afterwards.
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
In war time - "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton
The real issue/queston is - if you don't follow your training - what is that lawyer going to do you? Me - I am not certified in Rescue - but I am a fireman - I have the skills and CPR to help out - but when we go to court I am going to say I did my best - I am not certified in rescue...
Good Samaritan should cover me... but if you are certified and not following training - you are a liability... Or at least that is how I look at... YMMV and I am not a lawyer but I do know anyone can sue anyone for any reason...
The real issue/queston is - if you don't follow your training - what is that lawyer going to do you? Me - I am not certified in Rescue - but I am a fireman - I have the skills and CPR to help out - but when we go to court I am going to say I did my best - I am not certified in rescue...
Good Samaritan should cover me... but if you are certified and not following training - you are a liability... Or at least that is how I look at... YMMV and I am not a lawyer but I do know anyone can sue anyone for any reason...
I'm not sure what point you're making. The question in this thread is whether to take Rescue now or wait until one reaches some perceived threshold level of physical ability. If one takes Rescue and makes a good faith attempt to follow their training--however much or little they may remember--I would think Good Samaritan laws would protect them. The last thing we want is people who are afraid to act because they are afraid they won't follow/remember their training!
lv2dive
Formerly known as KatePNAtl
Remy, there are all kinds of situations where Rescue Training would benefit a diver - and for a tech diver, it's not likely to be body recovery related, either. I'm going to post about this from three different perspectives below.
I've known people who got bent following all the rules and I've known people who blew off half an hour of deco (or more) and didn't get bent. You are doing dives with no more than half an hour of deco at this point right? It would never cross my mind not to get a non-breathing buddy to the surface and try to get them revived, and depending on the situation, go back down and do extra deco or (if the boat needed to get the heck out of dodge and couldn't leave me) get on surface O2. I know this philosophy has the potential to be unpopular on here but: at less than 30 minutes of deco I'm willing to take chances (and take measures like omitted deco procedures or surface O2 or both) if it means potentially saving a friend's life.
The most important thing I got out out of my rescue class was how to help prevent accidents. Mine or others. I can let others (professionals) speak to this more than me, but for me (a non pro) it means I know my team and their capabilities, and that I know to call a dice on the surface if needed. And I keep an eye on other divers on the boat / at the site. The last time I didn't say anything about divers I felt uncomfortable with, was on a boat in S FL in Aug of last year. But what could I say? I was concerned at the experience level of some of the guys in the boat with us but they were "trained" for the depths and I didn't know them, so I didn't say anything. Unfortunately one from that group ended up in the chamber that weekend and another died in a cave a few months later. I have often thought about what I could do differently. I did, however, keep an eye on them when we were close. And FTR- the bent diver blew off 30 or 45 minutes of deco, his buddy got him to the surface and went back down.
Finally, sometimes the accidents you are involved with have nothing to do with diving. A few years ago, a kid drowned swimming in a pond where we were diving. After pulling him out of the water it was obvious we were too late although CPR was tried. But if we had been made aware of the situation earlier and just gotten to him five minutes quicker, his life may have been saved. And having a rescue class would definitely be beneficial for that type of situation.
I've known people who got bent following all the rules and I've known people who blew off half an hour of deco (or more) and didn't get bent. You are doing dives with no more than half an hour of deco at this point right? It would never cross my mind not to get a non-breathing buddy to the surface and try to get them revived, and depending on the situation, go back down and do extra deco or (if the boat needed to get the heck out of dodge and couldn't leave me) get on surface O2. I know this philosophy has the potential to be unpopular on here but: at less than 30 minutes of deco I'm willing to take chances (and take measures like omitted deco procedures or surface O2 or both) if it means potentially saving a friend's life.
The most important thing I got out out of my rescue class was how to help prevent accidents. Mine or others. I can let others (professionals) speak to this more than me, but for me (a non pro) it means I know my team and their capabilities, and that I know to call a dice on the surface if needed. And I keep an eye on other divers on the boat / at the site. The last time I didn't say anything about divers I felt uncomfortable with, was on a boat in S FL in Aug of last year. But what could I say? I was concerned at the experience level of some of the guys in the boat with us but they were "trained" for the depths and I didn't know them, so I didn't say anything. Unfortunately one from that group ended up in the chamber that weekend and another died in a cave a few months later. I have often thought about what I could do differently. I did, however, keep an eye on them when we were close. And FTR- the bent diver blew off 30 or 45 minutes of deco, his buddy got him to the surface and went back down.
Finally, sometimes the accidents you are involved with have nothing to do with diving. A few years ago, a kid drowned swimming in a pond where we were diving. After pulling him out of the water it was obvious we were too late although CPR was tried. But if we had been made aware of the situation earlier and just gotten to him five minutes quicker, his life may have been saved. And having a rescue class would definitely be beneficial for that type of situation.
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
You had mentioned you had been thinking about doing a rescue and you believe something is better than nothing...
I do not believe that is true. In fact I believe it will make your life worse if you were certified and failed to follow your training... The lawyers will have a field day with you - you are not protected by Good Samaritan if you are trained and fail to follow your training (assuming someone can prove you are trained and you failed to follow your training). You are protected if you followed your training and a bad outcome still occurred.
If a total passerby does stop and tries to help and they are not trained they are also protected by the Good Samaritan - but once you are trained and certified the expectation of "duty to act" is higher.
What's In Those Good Samaritan Laws, Exactly?
The one thing I'll grant you is that the law varies by state (and I have no idea if other countries have these sorts of laws). As the article you linked to states: "Some states are more committed than others to encouraging bystander response to emergencies, which has been shown to boost survival rates for victims of cardiac arrest—even if the rescuer is not well trained and the CPR technique is not perfect, it is still better than nothing. This is not the case everywhere, however, and it’s always best to keep your CPR training up to date." So it seems to me that so long as you don't attempt something you were not trained to do, you shouldn't hesitate to attempt to put your training into action. The law (at least in SOME states) recognizes that you may not have been trained well or you may not perform well for some other reason. The whole point of these laws is to encourage people who have received some training to do whatever they can, so long as it's something they received training in. "Following" your training poorly is still following your training.
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