Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?

[AJ]

It would be the difference in price from the cost of your SPG and hose, maybe even a compass if the computer had one. Perhaps you would be savvy enough to buy when the transmitter is free or just wait until the price comes down, as I'm sure it will as WAI becomes more and more popular.

I would consider that, if only SW would offer AI

You asked what was innovative about the design and then once you get an answer you bring up the cost. You didn't say anything about cost in your original post, simply what was innovative.

Sorry, don't consider loosing a hose as innovative. There has to be somthing more. Still waiting for that killer feature that an SPG can't provide.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm accused of being a luddite, but not one serious response to my post about future uses and functionality for tech AI.

Technical diving innovations tend to trickle down to recreational diving. AI seems to be the only one being pushed upwards

Andy's point on where AI sits for technical diving (if you read beyond the rhetoric) is spot on. The only reaistic improvement AI could bring to their type of diving is if it took into account all cylinders, their sizes and mixes, put it together and came up with a refined deco schedule and gas time/deco time. And yes that would require an investment which few would be willing to make. Agreed.

The fact that they vehemently object to the leading technical computer offering the AI facility should they choose to use it is a different matter.

Yes AI in this context is a bottom up technology where it starts with the masses rather than the specialists. LED Lights for instant started really as indicators, then cheap novelty torches before finally getting to a standard that suited professional use and of course increasing in price (Top down would be something like a CD player which was used by the minority high end users before becoming popular and cheaper).

The fact is, the technical community are the minority. The majority by far are the recreational diver you dives on vacation maybe once or twice a year, perhaps less. These are the people who will accept AI because it makes thing more of a convenience and easier. It might also make them safer. If AI can save 1 life then it must be applauded.

It's also worth remembering that the respondents to this thread are a small (but vocal) part of the SB community, which itself represents a fraction of the diving community as a whole.

Most divers go diving with a guide, consider 20 dives a year as a lot and don't give a damn about a lot of the crap we all spout on here. But this silent majority are the ones the manufacturers want to tap into and if they can offer functions which appear to have added value then brand A will succeed over Brand B.

So yes AI will be relentless in its acceptance because more and more people will have it. Fewer and fewer computers will be built without it. Sure the Nay Sayers will stamp their feet and make a noise but frankly they'll be a blip, a small minority who will be ignored and will find themselves either accepting the technology or buying second hand computers that meet the requirements for their personal Diving Nirvana

 

[Diving Dubai]

I would consider that, if only SW would offer AI


Sorry, don't consider loosing a hose as innovative. There has to be somthing more. Still waiting for that killer feature that an SPG can't provide.

A fair point.
But...

Does a calculator offer anything better than carrying out mental arithmetic or using a pen and paper for day to day maths? No. Yet (nearly) everyone has gone out and purchased one.

Does an automatic transmission so prevalent on US cars and gaining popularity in Europe have any advantages over a manual transmission. Answer of course in no. And an Auto cost more, weighs more and is less efficient.

What these two have in common is convenience. Society as a whole likes convenience The US is a prime example of convenience everything.

So AI gives convenience as well as other nice to have functions. A new OW student isn't taught gas management and can't do the maths on the fly - for one the're task loaded and 2 they have no experience. Some for some AI will be a boon. I can do all the maths and know all about gas management I chose to allow my computer to do it for me, but I have the experience to recognise when its wrong (or being far too conservative) And there's noting wrong with that

 

[Bennno]

Or, you could just put a transmitter on the right post of your backmount doubles and use it as an SPG. If nothing goes wrong, it's more convenient to check your pressure. If you end up shutting down the left post for some reason, then you still have an SPG.

You know, in case you have WAI for Rec diving anyway and you want to use it on your Tech rig, too.

And leave mechanical SPGs on all your other cylinders.

Can you please just do a intro to tec or fundis course or something? Obviously you don't wanna learn from people on the board so maybe you will listen to your instructor when he explains the same thing to you.
This setup makes no sense for tec dives. Why are you asking stuff if you think you know better than everyone else anyways? You need one SPG on the left post when doing tec dives, having more than this doesn't make any sense. Experienced divers have come up with this configuration for a reason.

You seem to want to do it the same way regardless of the advancements and block the advancement....

You asked what was innovative about the design and then once you get an answer you bring up the cost.

Guys, how can you guys call AI an innovation or an advanedment when it has been around for 20 years? It even has the same features it had 20 years ago, there is nothing new there. Is a portable CD player an innovation to you guys too?
It's old tech that has not made any progress in 20 years.
AI is NOT in innovation nor an advancedment. Please stop calling it that. It's not true. It WAS an innovation in the 90s and has never caught on the way computers have.
I know I'm repeating myself but I don't understand why some of you guys ignore obvious facts because you in love with some old and overpriced tech.

 

[CuzzA]

Guys, how can you guys call AI an innovation or an advanedment when it has been around for 20 years? It even has the same features it had 20 years ago, there is nothing new there. Is a portable CD player an innovation to you guys too?
It's old tech that has not made any progress in 20 years.
AI is NOT in innovation nor an advancedment. Please stop calling it that. It's not true. It WAS an innovation in the 90s and has never caught on the way computers have.
I know I'm repeating myself but I don't understand why some of you guys ignore obvious facts because you in love with some old and overpriced tech.

"Wireless" Air Integration was around 20 years ago? I thought I read somewhere it was first introduced around 2004-2005. Obviously any new technology is going to take some time to be adopted by other manufactures. Not to mention, prove its worth to those who didn't trust the technology and finally come down in price.

How long did it take for our internet connections to go from dial up to wifi? Quite some time despite a much higher demand for wireless internet compared to dive gear, which some would argue is nothing more than a hobby.

 

[CuzzA]

And by definition, wireless AI is an innovation from the analog SPG.

in·no·va·tion
ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the action or process of innovating.
   synonyms: change, alteration, revolution, upheaval, transformation, metamorphosis,breakthrough; More
   • a new method, idea, product, etc.
     plural noun: innovations
     "technological innovations designed to save energy"

 

[boulderjohn]

Andy's point on where AI sits for technical diving (if you read beyond the rhetoric) is spot on. The only reaistic improvement AI could bring to their type of diving is if it took into account all cylinders, their sizes and mixes, put it together and came up with a refined deco schedule and gas time/deco time. And yes that would require an investment which few would be willing to make. Agreed.

This isn't quite what you are talking about, but it reminded me of an experience I had 5 years ago.

I was on a dive boat in South Florida with a buddy. The rest of the boat was a group of about 5-6 wearing doubles and carrying a couple deco bottles each. They were doing simulated deco--gas switches and deco stops while still within recreational range. I eavesdropped enough to get the main idea of what they were doing, but I was not nosy enough to ask for details. Here is what I got.

The lead diver was a software engineer, and they were testing out his new wireless AI program for some company that I was not nosy enough to identify. They all did the deco dives with full gas switches without touching their computers. Their computers had recognized when they had switched gases and gone to the mix they were now using. It had worked perfectly for all divers on the two test dives I witnessed.

So 5 years ago some company working on a tech diving computer was doing at least that much research into tech diving AI.

 

[DevonDiver]

Guys, how can you guys call AI an innovation or an advanedment when it has been around for 20 years? It even has the same features it had 20 years ago, there is nothing new there. Is a portable CD player an innovation to you guys too?
It's old tech that has not made any progress in 20 years.
AI is NOT in innovation nor an advancedment. Please stop calling it that. It's not true. It WAS an innovation in the 90s and has never caught on the way computers have.
I know I'm repeating myself but I don't understand why some of you guys ignore obvious facts because you in love with some old and overpriced tech.

Very true. I chuckle at being labelled a 'luddite' - as I had an AI computer two decades ago. My first computer was a Suunto Eon. It was released in 1995 - 21 years ago.

Here is it mentioned on Divernet: "40 Great Innovations"...

I replaced it with a Vyper, when that first released (2001/2?), because I wanted a hoseless computer...and never felt the urge to invest in AI again. AI did little for me then. It does even less for me now.

What's luddite about that?

Was anyone else using AI two decades ago? Just asking....

 

[AJ]

Andy's point on where AI sits for technical diving (if you read beyond the rhetoric) is spot on. The only reaistic improvement AI could bring to their type of diving is if it took into account all cylinders, their sizes and mixes, put it together and came up with a refined deco schedule and gas time/deco time. And yes that would require an investment which few would be willing to make. Agreed.

That would be truly an innovation and a killer application, granted.

The fact is, the technical community are the minority. The majority by far are the recreational diver you dives on vacation maybe once or twice a year, perhaps less. These are the people who will accept AI because it makes thing more of a convenience and easier. It might also make them safer. If AI can save 1 life then it must be applauded.

Most divers go diving with a guide, consider 20 dives a year as a lot and don't give a damn about a lot of the crap we all spout on here. But this silent majority are the ones the manufacturers want to tap into and if they can offer functions which appear to have added value then brand A will succeed over Brand B.

To me, that's the real killer application as seen here. Divers who just make a few dives a year and do not have good skills.

So yes AI will be relentless in its acceptance because more and more people will have it. Fewer and fewer computers will be built without it. Sure the Nay Sayers will stamp their feet and make a noise but frankly they'll be a blip, a small minority who will be ignored and will find themselves either accepting the technology or buying second hand computers that meet the requirements for their personal Diving Nirvana[/QUOTE]
Agree, growth of the diving industry will come from newcomers. Tech divers make up for such a small group (maybe 1%?) and do present such a tiny amount of buys in the total market that it's hard to justify investments in new technology for this group. Evenmore so because they feel no need for this kind of innovations.

Does a calculator offer anything better than carrying out mental arithmetic or using a pen and paper for day to day maths? No. Yet (nearly) everyone has gone out and purchased one.

Does an automatic transmission so prevalent on US cars and gaining popularity in Europe have any advantages over a manual transmission. Answer of course in no. And an Auto cost more, weighs more and is less efficient.

What these two have in common is convenience. Society as a whole likes convenience The US is a prime example of convenience everything.

Do not agree totally here. A calculator helps me to do things quicker, an automatic transmission does shift better (smoother, more precise) than I will ever can. I know because I use one. But I see your point, they make life easier but you're still need to be in control. You have to be trained and experienced to operate a car safely no mather how the gear works.

So AI gives convenience as well as other nice to have functions. A new OW student isn't taught gas management and can't do the maths on the fly - for one the're task loaded and 2 they have no experience. Some for some AI will be a boon. I can do all the maths and know all about gas management I chose to allow my computer to do it for me, but I have the experience to recognise when its wrong (or being far too conservative) And there's noting wrong with that

So it's not about AI, it's about providing the computer with enough information to keep some divers out of trouble. It is exactly what worries me. Divers who are not really prepared to dive the dives they do, who have to rely on some electronics to guide them trough the dive. In my opinion that's not ok. As long as you're in control I could not care less if you use AI, SPG or none at all.

 

[DevonDiver]

And by definition, wireless AI is an innovation from the analog SPG.

....and for how long can you keep calling it an innovation?

1995 - 1st AI (Suunto Eon)
2001 - 1st WAI (Suunto Vyper)

It's now 2016...