An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

[descent]

So, Al suggests that Brian's letter was dishonest. Do you think that's a fair assessment? ...

Could he mean intellectually dishonest?

That is, advocating a position that Brian should already know is not likely to be factually correct, but pushing it anyway because it gets good headlines/big retweets? If we ignore our experience, avoid doing research, don't solicit the advice of our friends & colleagues, or gloss over inconvenient details that don't fit our theories or agendas, that is (at least) intellectually lazy.

 

[The Chairman]

Yeah, I don't think Al was trying to be nice in his characterization of Brian's diatribe. I doubt the two will be exchanging Christmas cards this year. This looks more like a war of rhetoric, which was completely avoidable on Brian's part.

I wonder if anyone still believes that any of Brian's allegations still have any merit?

• That the instructor was dismissed without any investigation: He was expelled based on his own words.
• That the instructor was never notified as to why he was dismissed: He was told verbally and explicitly how he violated standards and then sent a letter to confirm his expulsion.
• That being a veteran somehow gives him a pass on conducting a safe class: A faulty appeal to our emotions.
• That PADI tried to hide the fact that they had settled with the family: It is clear they were forthcoming about it.
• That PADI colluded with the family: Absolutely no evidence has been presented for this.
• That PADI was sanctioned for collusion: The Utah lawyers were sanctioned for not being timely. about reporting that they had settled. Nothing more.
• That PADI willfully gave the opposition the incident report: In fact, it was accidental by the local lawyers and PADI successfully clawed the document back.
• That the instructor followed all standards: In fact, the instructor broke several standards and many of us believe he was criminally negligent in that regard. 30 pounds and a steel tank on a 120 lb boy. My mind is still boggled that ANY agency would suggest that this was within standards. There were several other standards violations that have left us shaking our collective heads in wonder.
• That PADI's behavior was somehow "bizarre". How could anyone in our industry suggest that expelling an unsafe instructor is bizarre? Is Brian suggesting that they don't expel instructors?
• That "PADI’s action was irresponsible, secretly self-serving, and reeks of a big corporation attempting to sacrifice their own member who had acted completely within their standards of conduct": While this was only a reiteration of his former allegations, it bears note that this letter was in fact irresponsible, secretly self serving and reeks of a smaller corporation attempting to throw it's bigger competition under the bus using made up facts and faulty logic.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel Brian owes PADI and the rest of us an apology for his ill conceived and public tirade. As Brian pointed out in his letter: it's all about ethics. Is he man enough to admit he was wrong? Well, I'm going to invoke the first rule of Scuba Diving here and not hold my breath, but I would still like to read that apology.

 

[Wookie]

I wonder if anyone still believes that any of Brian's allegations still have any merit?I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel Brian owes PADI and the rest of us an apology for his ill conceived and public tirade. As Brian pointed out in his letter: it's all about ethics. Is he man enough to admit he was wrong? Well, I'm going to invoke the first rule of Scuba Diving here and not hold my breath, but I would still like to read that apology.

I don't think it will be Brian giving the apology when the court case is heard, and all of the things you don't know come to light.

IJS, and I'll shut up now. But go ahead and keep stirring.

 

[The Chairman]

I don't think it will be Brian giving the apology when the court case is heard, and all of the things you don't know come to light.

IJS, and I'll shut up now. But go ahead and keep stirring.

Herein is the beauty of the internet. We can disagree and still be friends. I completely respect your right to disagree with me, feel no animosity towards you at all over it and would hate for you to feel you ever have to "shut up now". Please, if you have facts or theories that would shed light on this, I would love to read them. That goes for anyone reading this.

As for stirring, I think that was first done with the initial public tirade. It would not surprise me to read a response to the response and so on. As long as they're willing to provide the drama, we all are going to discuss it. Why else would they start it? I certainly don't believe that one agency is more ethical than the other. Maybe I'm just disillusioned with the state of the dive industry at this point, but I see the pot calling the kettle black here.

 

[redacted]

• That the instructor was never notified as to why he was dismissed: He was told verbally and explicitly how he violated standards and then sent a letter to confirm his expulsion.
• That the instructor followed all standards: In fact, the instructor broke several standards and many of us believe he was criminally negligent in that regard. 30 pounds and a steel tank on a 120 lb boy. My mind is still boggled that ANY agency would suggest that this was within standards. There were several other standards violations that have left us shaking our collective heads in wonder.

One piece of "evidence" that seems to be fairly important that has not been revealed are these elusive "standards". I assume they must be written down somewhere in an "official" document. Yet, no one seems to be able to produce them. Are they secret where only those with the right clearance are allowed to see them? I think I understand the purported actions of the instructor. I do not understand the standards. Can anyone provide a link?

 

[HIGHwing]

They're not a secret, but they're somewhat challenge to post because you need the Discover Scuba Standards, and the definitions in General Standards and Procedures to properly interpret what's printed. If someone had time on their hands...

 

[The Chairman]

The standards violated are pretty obvious to me: abandoning students at depth, no required pool session and faulty weighting. I understand PADI's reticence in not revealing those violations to third parties for the same reasons we don't reveal why certain members here are expelled. It's between us, them and no one else. They are free to tell any story they want including me simply throwing them under the bus.

 

[demed]

Good to know!

I suspected this, but since I am not a PADI instructor, I did not know for sure. I imagine that since there is no card issued, the DSDs don't get these questionnaires. That might be something PADI and the other agencies need to address.

I like the idea, and you should probably submit to PADI. But you might want to consider the context for DSD and getting too much process heavy - by the time they get certified, Open Water students have spent some 20 hours with their instructor(s), so there is a degree of rapport that has been built and a degree of interest in participating in a survey.

DSD participants probably spent 2 or 3 hours max with their staff - what kind of feedback can they provide and how interested would they be in providing that feedback?

---------- Post added December 19th, 2014 at 08:29 AM ----------

It would be interesting to know how many instructors have been expelled by the various agencies.

PADI's expelled members are published quarterly on their bulletin and i believe on the public website - with some patience it would not be too hard to determine their number. But you also need to consider that PADI relies heavily on counseling and remediation, so that instructors are given several opportunities to correct themselves before they are expelled.

 

[HIGHwing]

I like the idea, and you should probably submit to PADI.

Actually, Page 117 of the current edition 2014 PADI Instructor Manual states, "Register Discover Scuba Diving participants with your PADI Office within 7 days of their experience. Include the participant’s complete contact information for quality management purposes. Use the registration portion of the Discover Scuba Diving Participant Guide, register online or use the Discover Scuba Diving Program Registration Form (10119).

 

[demed]

That is impossible. The intent may be for 100% of OW students to get the QA questionnaire but they don't reach 100%. More important than how many they reach is how many reply, what is that percent? It is a much more meaningful metric.

obviously 100% participation is impossible but the questionnaire is SENT to 100% of participants - the response rate varies with many factors, geography, time of the year, etc - not sure why PADI would however want to share the data points - i would not share competitive information.