Is a Dive Computer necessary?

[Craig66]

If you are ever in a situation where you need to know the square root of something, which would be a miracle on the order of the loaves and fishes, you can punch it into a calculator. You don't have to know the bloody mathematical process for doing it.

You are in the fortunate position of having learnt it before and understanding the process after doing it many times and now have the luxury of getting it done for you the "dumb way" by punching it out of a computer. Lets see in the future when those old skill are gone and people just punch it out without a thought - lets see if then they have an understanding of what they are doing. Lord help us on that day that some kid having grown up in your utopia and in control of some vital process punches in the wrong number and doesn't get the right answer and because they don't understand the process is not able to recognize it as the wrong answer - lets see then how bright we look.

As a med student I learned the krebs cycle and dissected hours of anatomy most of which I will never ever need but I could not ADEQUATELY proceed to the next level and learn the things I do need without that sound foundation. Sure I could have looked at pictures of dissections and sure in todays world there is an app for 3D dissection but believe me getting a hands on feel will never beat any app. I hope you are ready to live in the future that you embrace.

 

[fire_diver]

No, understanding tables does not imply a deep understanding of dive physiology just like mastering addition does not mean you will join AP calculus. Nonetheless I still firmly believe that a diver trained on tables and square profiles will have a better understanding of nitrogen accumulation and decompression. More importantly it imparts the fact that the dive computer and it's alogarithms are not absolute and that at all times common sense should trump. Something that someone conversant with tables will best appreciate.

I believe that tables should still be taught and understood to all new divers but the existence of tables doesn't mean computers are unsafe. Computers do NOT approximate or estimate or generalize. They take a set algorithm and use it to track tissue loading in real time. Very, very few people make square profile dives so any use of a table outside of square profile will be an estimation.

On top of all this, one table doesn't equal another. Current tables a WAY, WAY more conservative than the old Navy tables you probably learned on. Most rec dive computers are also much more restrictive than the old Navy tables and some are much more punitive for multi-dive days.

 

[fnfalman]

You are in the fortunate position of having learnt it before and understanding the process after doing it many times and now have the luxury of getting it done for you the "dumb way" by punching it out of a computer. Lets see in the future when those old skill are gone and people just punch it out without a thought - lets see if then they have an understanding of what they are doing. Lord help us on that day that some kid having grown up in your utopia and in control of some vital process punches in the wrong number and doesn't get the right answer and because they don't understand the process is not able to recognize it as the wrong answer - lets see then how bright we look.

As a med student I learned the krebs cycle and dissected hours of anatomy most of which I will never ever need but I could not ADEQUATELY proceed to the next level and learn the things I do need without that sound foundation. Sure I could have looked at pictures of dissections and sure in todays world there is an app for 3D dissection but believe me getting a hands on feel will never beat any app. I hope you are ready to live in the future that you embrace.

I'm a chemical engineer by training and you know what? I don't remember how to do square root by hands, and I think that I will fare just fine in my profession.

 

[Craig66]

I'm a chemical engineer by training and you know what? I don't remember how to do square root by hands, and I think that I will fare just fine in my profession.

Well I guess, its time to move on, I must be in the minority with my belief that in order to succeed at anything one needs to build on the basics even if you land up leaving the basics never to return.

Next time my daughter asks me why she needs to learn "all this stuff at school" that she will never use I will refer her on to this thread so she can chat with you all about how her deluded father believes she should have a healthy foundation. After all, why bother with all that algebra and stuff - she will never use it as she slices through human flesh in her chosen career of surgeon. Hell why even go through med school, maybe I will just take her to work with me and give her a few salient facts and an app and she can start cutting tomorrow - any of you want to be her first patient?

Keep well all - It was fun

 

[drrich2]

If anyone wants to gain a greater understanding of how we arrived at modern no-deco. diving theory and practice, rather than learning tables most won't use much, they could pick up a copy of The Complete Diver by Alex Brylske and read how the history of deco. theory unfolded. There's a lot there that tables won't teach you anything about.

Tables are not a foundation that computers build on. Tables were just a way of presenting theory in the form of a practical tool for making real life parameters limiting depth & duration of dives. Computers are just a different form of a practical tool for doing the same thing.

But another way, I've used a calculator a lot in college. I'm told there used to be something called a slide rule. Never used one, don't know how, doubt I missed much.

Richard.

 

[dmoore19]

We used a slide rule when I was in High School. Trust me, calculators are easier to operate.

Calculators came along a couple of years later. My first one was $125.00. There was no square root function but it was hand held with a LED display.

If anyone wants to gain a greater understanding of how we arrived at modern no-deco. diving theory and practice, rather than learning tables most won't use much, they could pick up a copy of The Complete Diver by Alex Brylske and read how the history of deco. theory unfolded. There's a lot there that tables won't teach you anything about.

Tables are not a foundation that computers build on. Tables were just a way of presenting theory in the form of a practical tool for making real life parameters limiting depth & duration of dives. Computers are just a different form of a practical tool for doing the same thing.

But another way, I've used a calculator a lot in college. I'm told there used to be something called a slide rule. Never used one, don't know how, doubt I missed much.

Richard.

---------- Post added September 2nd, 2014 at 07:23 PM ----------

Depends on what basics you are trying to learn. Is it the basics you want people to learn that of physiology or is it the math?

In my view of it, the tables are one representation of the algorithm, in chart form printed on paper. A computer is a representation of that algorithm (possibly the same one) in the form of an electronic display. Neither one really is a representation of the physiology, they represent the math involved. I can still run the tables if needed but why? I can see the same thing represented on a computer screen.

If someone wants to use the tables, I have no problem with that and they can do it if they want, I'll stick with my computer.

Well I guess, its time to move on, I must be in the minority with my belief that in order to succeed at anything one needs to build on the basics even if you land up leaving the basics never to return.

Next time my daughter asks me why she needs to learn "all this stuff at school" that she will never use I will refer her on to this thread so she can chat with you all about how her deluded father believes she should have a healthy foundation. After all, why bother with all that algebra and stuff - she will never use it as she slices through human flesh in her chosen career of surgeon. Hell why even go through med school, maybe I will just take her to work with me and give her a few salient facts and an app and she can start cutting tomorrow - any of you want to be her first patient?

Keep well all - It was fun

 

[Centrals]

Well I guess, its time to move on, I must be in the minority with my belief that in order to succeed at anything one needs to build on the basics even if you land up leaving the basics never to return.

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, Schrodinger Equation etc etc. had done nothing whatsoever in my professional career but I have to learn it one way or another.
Arithmetic should be replaced by calculator right from the beginning so the students can practice how punch the number without ever making a mistake. Perhaps they can find a way to replace the ineffecient internal combustion engine!

 

[fire_diver]

Well I guess, its time to move on, I must be in the minority with my belief that in order to succeed at anything one needs to build on the basics even if you land up leaving the basics never to return.

Next time my daughter asks me why she needs to learn "all this stuff at school" that she will never use I will refer her on to this thread so she can chat with you all about how her deluded father believes she should have a healthy foundation. After all, why bother with all that algebra and stuff - she will never use it as she slices through human flesh in her chosen career of surgeon. Hell why even go through med school, maybe I will just take her to work with me and give her a few salient facts and an app and she can start cutting tomorrow - any of you want to be her first patient?

Keep well all - It was fun

Sometimes finding out you are wrong hurts. Making glib responses and veiled insults does nothing to support your incorrect theories.

 

[Vindobona]

I personally like having my own computer for 2 main reasons:
- I know how to use all features and settings
- Consistency of the data, especially depth

 

[Roman_66]

I just returned from boat trip (Flow Garden). 100% were with computers.
Most dives profiles were not square at all.
So reality is that using tables only you will have issue to find a buddy.