Why is a Jacket BC better than a BP/W?

[divad]

At $919 LP price I guess it's cheaper than a penis enlargement

er...um..................how much is a penis enlargement.......

 

[jadairiii]

......Question? When you are on a sinking boat, do they hand you a life vest or a metal plate with a wing?

You make the point quite nicely. Why dive with a gear design never intended for swimming? Vests are for floating on the surface waiting for the Coast Guard, BP/Wings are for diving.

 

[sphyrnidus]

@Richard: You lost me when you start comparing your scuba rig with a service for your car. That is imho ridiculous.
I dive a BP/W. I started diving before any of these floating devices were invented. We only had a BP and an flotation device only to be inflated with a CO2 cartridge on the surface...
I had a Mares Dragon with integrated weights because the LDS said that's the way to go, just like you had done. Then I lost the weight pockets on three separate occasions, even after Mares replaced the MRS+ system. That is quite annoying, when down there... I read about people loosing these pockets quite often on our local scubaboard. The lost and found department is densely populated by people who either lost or found pockets.
My SO has a Cressi, the weight pockets are tearing up when she uses the hard weights on liveaboards. With the soft lead we have at home the are fine. The weight integration however put al the weight at the same place. With my BP/W I can very it according to need.
The SMB is attached to the D ring, never notice it. The spool and extra mask/ back-up light go into a pocket on my belt.
I have both a alu and a stee one (for travelling and at home) This set up allows me to travel within the 20 kg most European airlines allow you, while the Mares was quite heavy. At home I use the steel plate.
And yes I like to have separate wings for different set ups. Not possible with the BCD. Pockets can be individualised too, very good indeed.
And so on.
I respect that you are happy with just the one thing, but for me, I will never return to a BCD.
And if I change tires on my motorcycle, I like to discuss what brand of tire I want and what the advantages are. And also which brand of oil goes in there etc.
That works fine for me...

 

[Rhyno]

A lot of discussion around why a BP/W is better is back buoyancy and weight. A back inflate BC and integrated weights appears to have given the same benefit. All the talk about how you can add this and that to a BP is good... until you realize what you've ended up with is something just as expensive, and almost as bulky as a BC.

Where my BC shines? I've got a total of $50 invested in it and couldn't be happier. The BC's prevalence saturates the used market. Prices for drop like a rock in accordance.

 

[Wojo]

I'll offer this from a newbie's perspective.

I'm recently certified, with only 9 dives under my belt. As of right now, I'm not expecting to move beyond recreational diving. I already had some limited gear in my locker...fins/mask/snorkel from free diving, but besides a dive computer I haven't bought any scuba gear. I'm heeding the majority's advice here on the forum, and I'm renting for a while.

First, my LDS rents Sherwood Avid so that is what I've been using. To my knowledge (I'll have to ask) they do not have BP/Wings for rent. I've been all over their rental area and I've only seen one Dive Rite BP/Wing setup, and it was a customer's in for a tank fill. So, with no BP/Wing available for rental I am unable to try before buying. How am I to know whether I'm a fan of a BP/Wing without making the investment? My disposable income is finite, and I'm not one to go into hock unless it's an emergency. Even if I were, the CFO (read wife) wouldn't bankroll the operation. Having never had the opportunity to try a BP/Wing, and not being able to make a significant investment on faith alone, I am highly likely to purchase a BCD.

Secondly, I came here to the forum to, among other things, get information on BP/Wing vs. BCD. There are enough conflicting opinions here that I'm not likely to be swayed by any opinions here...sorry. Again, I'm likely to stay with what I know.

Third, at 49 I'm getting into the sport a bit later in life. When I was younger I'd throw caution to the wind and buy whatever the cool kids were buying...debt be damned. Those days are behind me...some because of my own mindset, and some because of the CFO's stringent purchasing restrictions. So, again I stay with a BCD.

Lastly, and to me most importantly, I don't dislike diving with a BCD. I have no real motivation, beyond curiosity, to change to something unfamiliar. So, it's decided...I'll buy a BCD.

I'm going to guess that that most folks in my position, new divers with limited disposable income and no access to try out a BP/Wing before buying, will opt to go with what they know.

That's my two cents.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'll offer this from a newbie's perspective.

I'm recently certified, with only 9 dives under my belt. As of right now, I'm not expecting to move beyond recreational diving. I already had some limited gear in my locker...fins/mask/snorkel from free diving, but besides a dive computer I haven't bought any scuba gear. I'm heeding the majority's advice here on the forum, and I'm renting for a while.

First, my LDS rents Sherwood Avid so that is what I've been using. To my knowledge (I'll have to ask) they do not have BP/Wings for rent. I've been all over their rental area and I've only seen one Dive Rite BP/Wing setup, and it was a customer's in for a tank fill. So, with no BP/Wing available for rental I am unable to try before buying. How am I to know whether I'm a fan of a BP/Wing without making the investment? My disposable income is finite, and I'm not one to go into hock unless it's an emergency. Even if I were, the CFO (read wife) wouldn't bankroll the operation. Having never had the opportunity to try a BP/Wing, and not being able to make a significant investment on faith alone, I am highly likely to purchase a BCD.

Secondly, I came here to the forum to, among other things, get information on BP/Wing vs. BCD. There are enough conflicting opinions here that I'm not likely to be swayed by any opinions here...sorry. Again, I'm likely to stay with what I know.

Third, at 49 I'm getting into the sport a bit later in life. When I was younger I'd throw caution to the wind and buy whatever the cool kids were buying...debt be damned. Those days are behind me...some because of my own mindset, and some because of the CFO's stringent purchasing restrictions. So, again I stay with a BCD.

Lastly, and to me most importantly, I don't dislike diving with a BCD. I have no real motivation, beyond curiosity, to change to something unfamiliar. So, it's decided...I'll buy a BCD.

I'm going to guess that that most folks in my position, new divers with limited disposable income and no access to try out a BP/Wing before buying, will opt to go with what they know.

That's my two cents.

I understand your thoughts on the whole BP/W vs jacket debate. For a new diver the arguments must be overwhelming if you are trying to use the opinions as a decision tool.
Both sides have valid points but they are all opinions and nothing more. Some of the mechanical facts are still facts however like D-ring placement, swapping different wings, etc. Each concept is mechanically different but the end result is the same - they control buoyancy.
Deciding to rent is a good idea. And if and when you do decide to pull the trigger on a BC look at the used market first because there is a ton of almost new gear out there on Craiglist, Ebay, and forum classifieds for pennies on the dollar.
That way if you do buy a used BCD and don't like it you can just resell it probably for about what you paid for it (if it was a good enough deal) and move on.

You have to realize there are two parallel universes in diving. First there is the LDS universe where they still think they are in charge of everything diving and all people come to them for the latest advice on what the current state of the art standard is.
Then there is the internet alternative diving universe where many people who are probably more involved with diving than the average vacation diver have gone. The internet diving world is full of different ideas including the use of BP/W (for regular single tank recreational use), GUE/DIR concepts, vintage diving, minimalist diving, and all sorts of other things that you would never know about going through your average LDS.
There are some LDS people who have ventured into the internet world to see what we're talking about but I think most of the time they don't like what they see. There are a lot of very independent minds here who are not afraid to call out many things in the diving industry they see as deragatory including the direction that certain scuba gear has taken.
Dive shops can keep you from standing in front of their store calling them out but they can't stop the internet.
Free information is a great thing and you should use it to your full advantage.
Would you have even known about a back plate and wing if it wasn't for the internet?
Just the fact that you are here and have read all this thread means you are ahead of 99% of all the other divers who just go into their LDS for another heaping helping of whatever they are serving up that day.


One more tid bit.
If you bought either a jacket or BP/W setup new, you will be able to sell the BP/W for a higher resale than the jacket, so this is something to think about for price sensitve people.
Most people move from a jacket into a BP/W and not the other way around. This board is full of stories about people switching from jacket to plate and loving it. It's very rare that you hear of someone going from plate/wing to jacket and loving it.

 

[Wojo]

Some of the mechanical facts are still facts however like D-ring placement, swapping different wings, etc.

Probably the most compelling fact that has me wanting to look around for an opportunity to try a BP/Wing before buying a BCD is that they're modular. The fiscally conservative side of me likes the idea that if a component breaks I can replace that component, and not have a completely compromised rig because of one broken element.

I learned that here, so yes...I'm better off for having read the opinions.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Probably the most compelling fact that has me wanting to look around for an opportunity to try a BP/Wing before buying a BCD is that they're modular. The fiscally conservative side of me likes the idea that if a component breaks I can replace that component, and not have a completely compromised rig because of one broken element.

I learned that here, so yes...I'm better off for having read the opinions.

The best thing I can tell you is to hook up with some plate divers in your area. I don't know much about Michigan but I'm guessing there has to be a few clubs/groups diving the lakes that might be into BP/W's.
At least lay eyes on one and look at it. It will surprise you how simple they really are.
The cool thing is you can eventually get different wings for different applications, if the 2" webbing (same exact stuff as weight belt material) ever wears out you just go into any dive shop that stocks rolls of weight belt webbing, you just buy about 10'-12' of it and restring it.
The plate will never wear out (there's nothing to wear out).
Dive Right In Scuba.com has an in-house brand that's a super deal - I haven't checked lately but I think it's right around $400. complete.
There are also a variety of other brands that offer great packaged deals.
That would be the last unit you would ever need to buy.

---------- Post added August 22nd, 2014 at 10:24 AM ----------

er...um..................how much is a penis enlargement.......

I have no idea, but the way medical costs are soaring these days it has to be more than that BCD.

My guess is the people who would buy something like that are either compensating heavily for some inadequacy or are completely uninformed.
I think anybody who gets involved in tech diving would probably know that a simple BP/W system is what 99.999% of the tech world is using, not that thing. Using that would be a good way to get laughed off the boat if you were on a serious tech charter.
This leaves me to the conclusion that that unit is probably sold to wannabe's who have a small appendage syndrome, and used for single tank diving - you know...just trying to look like a badass.
This is classic poser gear.

 

[divad]

---------- Post added August 22nd, 2014 at 10:24 AM ----------


I have no idea, but the way medical costs are soaring these days it has to be more than that BCD.

My guess is the people who would buy something like that are either compensating heavily for some inadequacy or are completely uninformed.
I think anybody who gets involved in tech diving would probably know that a simple BP/W system is what 99.999% of the tech world is using, not that thing. Using that would be a good way to get laughed off the boat if you were on a serious tech charter.
This leaves me to the conclusion that that unit is probably sold to wannabe's who have a small appendage syndrome, and used for single tank diving - you know...just trying to look like a badass.
This is classic poser gear.

Yeow! I just looked at it and its even more pathetic than my attempt at penis humor. One of the most embarrassing BCs I've ever seen. If I saw one like that on a boat I'd just feel bad for the guy and try not to gawk.

 

[rhwestfall]

.....Four Large D-Rings on the Shoulders, Two D-Rings on the Shoulder Adjustment Strap Ends, one on each side, Two D-Rings on Sternum Strap, one on each end, Six D-Rings on Padded Back Pack, three on each side, Two D-Rings on Waist Strap, one on each side and a Two D-Rings on the 2" (5.1 cm) Crotch Strap.



Makes the TransPlate harness seem "minimalist"....