Why is a Jacket BC better than a BP/W?

[DaleC]

...In the 70’s and 80’s is was all about the lift of the BC, 40 lbs was considered minimal and 60 was common, in a horse collar BC! I high lift horse collar (regardless of what the vintage guys think) were not very comfortable in the water ESPECIALLY if you were over-weighted...

I know this is a BP/W vs Jacket match but I couldn't let this pass unanswered. My SeaTec horsecollar has 24lb's of lift, less than most modern wings. I dive it as close to neutral as possible and add air only to off set wetsuit compression at depth which results in a small, manageable bubble. That was what the original buoyancy compensator was meant to do - compensate for a loss of buoyancy. True, the 70's and 80's produced some strange creations, but there is nothing inherently wrong with horsecollar use.

You can watch the first minute of this video to see how that works:

[video=youtube;W1eJfyLbzA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1eJfyLbzA8&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z134ffx54lymvrpcn234xbf5ltrhsl c4l04[/video]

On the surface the horsecollar is the only system guaranteed to float a diver face up. They also allowing the diver to swim forward by resting on top of the bubble (thus keeping the face out of the water). Most modern divers swim backwards because they need to rest on the back bubble.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled slugfest.

 

[Nemrod]

I know this is a BP/W vs Jacket match but I couldn't let this pass unanswered. My SeaTec horsecollar has 24lb's of lift, less than most modern wings. I dive it as close to neutral as possible and add air only to off set wetsuit compression at depth which results in a small, manageable bubble. That was what the original buoyancy compensator was meant to do - compensate for a loss of buoyancy. True, the 70's and 80's produced some strange creations, but there is nothing inherently wrong with horsecollar use.

On the surface the horsecollar is the only system guaranteed to float a diver face up. They also allowing the diver to swim forward by resting on top of the bubble (thus keeping the face out of the water). Most modern divers swim backwards because they need to rest on the back bubble.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled slugfest.

I too still use a Seatec horse collar often enough that I have two, one NIB for spare. A very useful and streamlined BC. Nice pocket, low drag profile and as you say, about 24 pounds of lift. Just as wing/BP users need to learn to trim and configure their weights and lift center, so the same with a horse collar. And they do hold the diver face up but that said, like all BCs, none are USCG approved as a life preserver.

N

 

[DaleC]

Yes (I think because they can deflate and lose lift).

I find the whole, which is better, debate a somewhat intellectual exercise. I have dived jackets, wings, horsecollars, drysuit as BC, bastardized sidemount and no BC and find, adjusting for conditions, a capable diver can use all successfully. I would never let not having a particular design stop me from doing a recreational dive.

 

[Lost down under]

So you have actually used one of these?
Tell us about it please, and don't hold back.
Don't worry Scubapro can't sick their blood thirsty attorneys on you, it's only opinion.
And remember, opinions are like A-holes, everybody's got one.

Seen a diver dive one, the LDS had told him he'd be fine with a double wing diving a single tank.

Taco any one?

 

[eelnoraa]

So you have actually used one of these?
Tell us about it please, and don't hold back.
Don't worry Scubapro can't sick their blood thirsty attorneys on you, it's only opinion.
And remember, opinions are like A-holes, everybody's got one.

Yes, I have dived it. I am usually very curious about new dive gears. Whenever I get a chance, I want to try something new, not necessary adapt it for my personal use, but at least I know what I like and what I don't like.

I have used the same harness with a smaller wing for single tank. The exact unit I used, a scubapro SS backplate was attached to the back of the soft (but stiff) harness back. The plate is held in place by book screws along the edge of the plate. First, what is the point here? None of the shoulder or waist harness attach to the plate. But the tank is attached to the plate tho. The whole thing is just not stable

The shoulder portion of the harness is bolt to the soft backpad using book screws. Shoulder haness is very wide and stiff, they don't articulate. I am a small guy, 5'6" 135lb. I can't get the harness attached to me securely without cinching down the chest strap. But then the should strap are in the way of my drysuit inflator. The should straps are also quite thick and with too much stuff there. In terms of bulkiness, it isn't better than jacket BCs I have used.

The waist harness is basically 2 inch webbing around the back, but sewed to the back pad. The attachement from waist harness to shoulder harness is by the same type of metal plate as Dive Rite Transplate.

Overall, think of it as a DiveRite Transpac, a bulky and heavier version of it. Then you bolt a backplate behind it to hold the tank. It is less stable, less secured attaching to the diver.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Yes, I have dived it. I am usually very curious about new dive gears. Whenever I get a chance, I want to try something new, not necessary adapt it for my personal use, but at least I know what I like and what I don't like.

I have used the same harness with a smaller wing for single tank. The exact unit I used, a scubapro SS backplate was attached to the back of the soft (but stiff) harness back. The plate is held in place by book screws along the edge of the plate. First, what is the point here? None of the shoulder or waist harness attach to the plate. But the tank is attached to the plate tho. The whole thing is just not stable

The shoulder portion of the harness is bolt to the soft backpad using book screws. Shoulder haness is very wide and stiff, they don't articulate. I am a small guy, 5'6" 135lb. I can't get the harness attached to me securely without cinching down the chest strap. But then the should strap are in the way of my drysuit inflator. The should straps are also quite thick and with too much stuff there. In terms of bulkiness, it isn't better than jacket BCs I have used.

The waist harness is basically 2 inch webbing around the back, but sewed to the back pad. The attachement from waist harness to shoulder harness is by the same type of metal plate as Dive Rite Transplate.

Overall, think of it as a DiveRite Transpac, a bulky and heavier version of it. Then you bolt a backplate behind it to hold the tank. It is less stable, less secured attaching to the diver.

Thank you.

I just wonder who designs this stuff and where they get their ideas.
It just seems like a toatlly convoluted mess when all it needs to be is just a dirt simple BP/W.
It also seems like a lot of work for the ladies behind sewing machines in China.
I wonder how many of these they sell world wide and if they sell enough of them to justify even making them?

 

[industrious95]

With a bp/w, you have less junk in front of you, so there's more room for YOU're junk (flashlight, reel, game bag, lift bag, extra flashlight, camera, etc.) I used to feel that when I dove with a jacket, I spent half my dive moving that crap out of my line of sight.

 

[OMANDIVER]

Benefit of jacket: It is simple. Slip it over a tank, tighten straps. Add regs. Go diving. I now dive CCR and have dived everything in between, but for a quick OC dive single tank my old Pro QD is what I grab.

Like he says

 

[Colliam7]

Benefit of jacket: It is simple. Slip it over a tank, tighten straps. Add regs. Go diving. I now dive CCR and have dived everything in between, but for a quick OC dive single tank my old Pro QD is what I grab.

Like he says

Now, I am curious. How is the ease of use - as described above - a specific benefit of a jacket BCD over a BP/W BCD? I fully agree, ease of use is a desirable characteristic of any unit, be it a jacket or back-inflation BCD. I think I must be missing something as to how this distinguishes jacket BCDs from BP/W rigs. (And, if this was answered earlier - by someone other than Andyoak, and I missed it, I will go back through the thread once more just to see if this was answered.)

 

[mikeycanuk]

I've always found it curious as to when a newbie asks for BCD advice only to have the next response is a BP/W X100
I've only ever seen one, on our local instructor. Never, ever, once on our travels. We love our ScubaPro GO's and would buy another when they wear out, never had or felt the need to get something else. It does the job, and does it well. Not to mention it travels well.



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