Couple questions on a pony bottle for bail out

[uncfnp]

Deleted

 

[DaleC]

And people are again mixing technical biased approaches to recreational diving.

Why do you need a couple of minutes at depth to solve a problem? The problem is you have no backgas (for whatever reason) and the solution is a direct ascent, as the recreational diving definition suggests, doing a mandatory SS only if you have gone into the black near the ndl's. We plan for one failure, loss of backgas means: begin your ascent now, not in a couple of minutes. If you need to attain some sort of rally point or upline, that is factored into a more comprehensive plan.

You don't need to do min deco either, which is an artificial construct that has not proven to be any safer than direct ascents in the recreational realm. All dives are decompression dives is a theoretical, not practical, concept. IRL we do not need to treat NDL dives like deco dives, as millions of recreational dives seem to prove.

Go up, get shallow, do your stops there if you want where your gas lasts longer, the gradient is steeper, and an unplanned emergency ascent is a non event.

 

[jadairiii]

.....Why do you need a couple of minutes at depth to solve a problem? ....

You guys are right, I was thinking they allow recreational divers on the Spiegel, Duane, Bibb, Eagle, Thunderbolt, Princess Anne which now I realize they don't. And even if they did the dive boats tell those rec divers not to enter the wrecks and they would listen. So therefore they would never need to solve any problems and always be able to do direct ascents in the "recreational realm".

 

[grf88]

You guys are right, I was thinking they allow recreational divers on the Spiegel, Duane, Bibb, Eagle, Thunderbolt, Princess Anne which now I realize they don't. And even if they did the dive boats tell those rec divers not to enter the wrecks and they would listen. So therefore they would never need to solve any problems and always be able to do direct ascents in the "recreational realm".

Even in that scenario a 40 cu.ft. bailout would take care of most situations unless they ventured beyond simple swim-throughs. A little advice though; conventional wisdom suggests that when you find you have dug yourself into a hole the best course of action is to stop digging.

 

[kwinter]

conventional wisdom suggests that when you find you have dug yourself into a hole the best course of action is to stop digging.

roflmao!

 

[mick allein III]

I wasn't talking deco. My point is simply this. More air better. If the bouyancy characteristics and price are almost identical why not getter the bigger bottle? Size matters. Besides I think a 40 cf is a way more useful bottle if the diver decides he wants to go tec or solo.

 

[kwinter]

I wasn't talking deco. My point is simply this. More air better. If the bouyancy characteristics and price are almost identical why not getter the bigger bottle? Size matters. Besides I think a 40 cf is a way more useful bottle if the diver decides he wants to go tec or solo.

Then why not just sling another 80? Or a 120? Or whatever kind of tank you use for a primary. It would have more use.

Sometimes less is more. There is no reason to use a 40 for recreational diving. I think we all know those guys who only relate to "size matters" are trying to make up for other shortcomings.

 

[LiteHedded]

if I was out of air and my buddy asked me to stop for a minute at 50 feet for made up minimum deco i would lose my ****.
if you're super worried about it do a stop shallow maybe after it's clear everyone is going to survive the thing.
rock bottom at the gue-f level is a neat exercise to prepare you for the real thing. some people take it way too seriously.

 

[DaleC]

You guys are right, I was thinking they allow recreational divers on the Spiegel, Duane, Bibb, Eagle, Thunderbolt, Princess Anne which now I realize they don't. And even if they did the dive boats tell those rec divers not to enter the wrecks and they would listen. So therefore they would never need to solve any problems and always be able to do direct ascents in the "recreational realm".

You can't define the requirements for an activity based on the needs of those who violate the terms of that activity. It's like saying you'll need multiple deco gasses on all tech divers because some divers will go deeper and longer than they are supposed to.

N.A. Recreational diving is primarily defined as 0-130', no overheads, direct ascent with voluntary safety stops unless close to the NDL's, where a single SS at 10-20' is required.

Also, defining the requirements for rec diving by the most extreme values ie. (air) 20 minutes at 100', 10 at 130' etc... is cutting it a bit fine IMO. What's the practical difference between 20 minutes at depth and 21 minutes considering the arbitrary nature of deco theory? If divers are doing those sorts of dives on a regular basis they should be preparing themselves to be able to do simple staged decompression, just as someone who stands on the railing of a bridge long enough should be preparing to eventually fly.

 

[Greg_Vic_Diver]

if I was out of air and my buddy asked me to stop for a minute at 50 feet for made up minimum deco i would lose my ****.
if you're super worried about it do a stop shallow maybe after it's clear everyone is going to survive the thing.
rock bottom at the gue-f level is a neat exercise to prepare you for the real thing. some people take it way too seriously.

If you had the gas, were on a 7ft long hose what would the issue be? I wouldn't care...and I wouldn't be stressed. All min deco is is just a slow 10ft (3m)/min ascent rate from half the max depth on a rec dive.