Sidemount gear configuration practices - 4 questions

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I agree with the double long hose approach. It keeps things very consistent. Always donating the one in your mouth. If you have a reversible second stage, it is not an issue to have one from the left and one from the right, and it is easy to distinguish which is which. I think the single long hose configuration came directly from backmount doubles without folks thinking about the fact that in doubles you were only breathing from one hose while in sidemount (excluding the UTD manifold) each second stage is being used half of the time. So why not make things consistent and simple? As for things being more likely to snag, etc., that possibility exists with a single long hose too. The chance of both long hoses breaking loose is practically nil. And if one does, then you wrap it around your neck just like the guys who started out that way.

I just don't see the big issue here.
 
Thanks for the info - good to know. I got mine recently (it's the 2013 anniversary model) and lit says diving to low temps should be ok. But it's still a piston which are inherently more difficult to enviro. seal than diaphragm designs. Anyhow, I have three cold water regs (apeks dst, hog d1 w/ kit, mk17) so sticking with those in 40s/high 30s temps. BTW, how one uses the reg may matter more than the design per se. That is, not inflating during inspiration, unnecessary purging, etc. And maybe tuning IP down a tad.

FYI MK25, at least the latest version works great in cold water as well. I have done several ice dives with mk25/G250v and mk25/G260 wit no issues of freezing whatsoever.

- Mikko Laakkonen -

I love diving and teaching others to dive.


---------- Post added March 27th, 2014 at 08:28 PM ----------

Darn, left out Hollis DC3 which is a great cold water reg. Accumulating too many regs. Like children, you forget their names now and then. Terve to brave divers in Finland!

Thanks for the info - good to know. I got mine recently (it's the 2013 anniversary model) and lit says diving to low temps should be ok. But it's still a piston which are inherently more difficult to enviro. seal than diaphragm designs. Anyhow, I have three cold water regs (apeks dst, hog d1 w/ kit, mk17) so sticking with those in 40s/high 30s temps. BTW, how one uses the reg may matter more than the design per se. That is, not inflating during inspiration, unnecessary purging, etc. And maybe tuning IP down a tad.
 
A bit of a 'summary' to wrap this up, since there seem to be more and more sidebars appearing - nothing wrong with that at all, just trying to bring the informal assessment of current practice to some kind of closure.

A few caveats: 1) this was not intended to be any kind of comprehensive survey, nor 2) can / will I say that the results necessarily reflect a statistically valid random sample of the larger world of sidemount gear configuration use, and 3) had the questions been asked in a different forum perhaps the distribution of responses would have been different, plus 4) I appreciate the fact that this sub-forum is nominally part of 'Technical Diving Specialties' but the posters are clearly both recreational / open water SM divers as well as divers engaging in more technical sidemount diving. Finally, 5) in a number of cases, posters said they agreed with something - e.g. using long hoses on both cylinders - or disagreed with something - e.g. using 360 degree swivels - but never really stated what they actually do, so I had trouble integrating some responses in the numerical tallies, and 6) I allowed myself considerable editorial license in interpreting the responses where there was any ambiguity or lack of clarity. In other words, just as with liability waivers and releases, I am not responsible for anything, so read the following at your own risk. :)

1. Second stage regulator hose lengths – do you dive a long hose on one side, and a short hose (e.g. on a bungee necklace) on the other? If so, on which side do you place your long hose, and what ‘long’ hose length do you use? Or, do you dive 2 long hoses?
Among ~20 interpretable responses, 16 divers indicated they use a long hose (primarily 7", with a 5" and a 6" mentioned) on the right cylinder and a short(er) hose on the left cylinder. The length of the short hose varied quite a bit from 22" to 40", probably reflecting different approaches to routing. I personally found / find the discussion of long hose use on one side vs both, and on the right vs left, to be intriguing and hope that will continue across the forum. I dive a 7' hose on the right, and a 32" hose with a bungeed necklace on the left, simply out of habit developed from BM doubles diving. I tried 5' on both and 'came back', but that may well be my own misguided behavior.

2. Second stage hose adapters - do you use an adapter on your second stage hoses, such as a 70 degree angle adapter, a 90 degree angle adapter, or a 360 degree swivel adapter? If so, do you use them on both, or only one hose?
In roughly 90% of responses, the poster reported using some kind of adapter, most commonly (about half of the replies) a 90 degree adapter (on one side or both). About 25% of responses described use of a 360 degree adapter on both, and there were a handful of posters reporting that they use a 70 degree (or a 110 degree :)) adapter on one or both. I personally use a 360 degree swivel on both, but can't say i have even tried an alternate approach.

3. Cylinder attachment methods – do you use a standard deco / stage bottle rigging kit, or something else? If something else, what do you use for the top at bottom attachment points? Do you use a fixed bottom attachment (e.g. a metal hose clamp), or do you use a cam band?
11 divers reported using a cam band with the bottom attachment, and 7 reported using a hose clamp. I thought that was interesting, and expected (for no particular reason) fewer 'cam band' responses. I happen to use cam bands on my own rig, and enjoy the flexibility that offers (and don't maintain permanently 'rigged' cylinders), but thought I was in the minority. In addtiion 4-5 people described using paracord for attachments, which surprised me a bit - nothing wrong with it at all, I just hadn't even thought of using it until a post by Maxime-Thierry Lavoie in another thread alerted me that some divers were doing that. I use braided static line, but thicker cord (1/4"), and am now experimenting with using the lighter / thinner, but equally strong, paracord.

4. Cylinder valve position – do you position the aperture (opening) of your valves so that they face into your body? Away from your body? At a 90 degree angle to your body (e.g. facing in, toward the opposing cylinder valve opening)?
The majority (13) of posters dive with the valves facing their body, while 3 reported valves facing away. I did not see a response where the poster specifically said that they orient the apertures facing toward each other (with the valve handles facing 'down', away from the diver' body, although i have seen that orientation described in other threads in the past. In my own case, I have come to prefer diving with the valve apertures facing away from my, rather than toward my body, but it is at best a slight preference, and I dive with the apertures inboard at times as well.

To those who replied, and shared what they do and/or why they do it, thanks for contributing.
 
Just to change the bias slightly - I currently dive long hose (6') left post and short hose right. Valve openings towards body so first stages sit against body, I have split a pair of doubles so have matched cylinders and dive them with the valve handles towards the centre of my chest. Reach across and my hand falls straight on the valve control. Both hoses have Omni swivels fitted, the short hose is on a neck loop, and the long hose is on a breakaway clip and clipped off to my right shoulder after passing around the back of my neck. The excess is tucked along the tank under two rubber bungees.

Wing inflator off left tank, and drysuit off right tank - so my buoyancy is redundant as well.

For rigging I have used cam bands with stage straps. and still do when travelling, but on my own tanks use SS jubilee clips with stage straps and dive right chokers to hold in the neck clip. I am diving a nomad harness and use ring bungees so I have a hard attachment for walking around with tanks on for shore dives and so on.

- Phil
 
Cold water drysuit diving what I do here in Artic sea northern Norway coast, I have a long hose on the right side clip it my right D-ring and a short hose on the left side 90-degree elbow and a bungee cord necklace. I want to keep my chest free of extra hoses because it is already bcd and dry suit hose.
Loop bungee and paragord loop+boltsnap on the tank neck.
Hoseclamp+boltsnaps on the botton of tank.
 
Thanks for the info - good to know. I got mine recently (it's the 2013 anniversary model) and lit says diving to low temps should be ok. But it's still a piston which are inherently more difficult to enviro. seal than diaphragm designs.

I use a Mk15/G250 and Mk20/S600 in cold water all the time. Of the regulators I've used (Sherwood, Mares, US Divers/Aqualung, Dacor, Poseidon) they are the only ones that have NEVER freeflowed. I'm in Minnesota and my Scubapros have seen plenty of ice dives and Lake Superior.
 
Hey fellow Sidemounters .. this is my first post on Scuba Board, I felt compelled to add my 2 cents.

I have noticed a trend that I am not sure about with respect to your 4th point of inquiry, which is to have the handles both facing outward (or inward for that matter). Is this just to look symmetrical? I guess I have a very strong opinion on this because I can't really understand the argument for doing it this way. It makes a lot more sense to me to have the handles both facing the same way (which for me is to the left). My argument here is that in every situation it makes a lot more sense to be able to grab a tank handle and turn it away from my body to open the tank, and towards my body to close the tank. If there was any contact with your arms or with the ground (poor buoyancy control in open water or tight overheard environment) with a forward motion, the tanks would remain open. There is no opportunity for the valves to roll closed. Instinctively to me it also makes sense to have all tanks (maybe you are diving with 6!) to be able to open and close in the same direction.

Hopefully that makes sense.... if a diver with a differing opinion perhaps someone who dives with both valves facing outwards could explain his or her reasoning that would be awesome!

To comment on regs I have been using a scuba pro MK 25 since May 2010 when I first learned to dive, it has traveled with me wherever my diving adventures have taken me and NEVER let me down I really can't say enough things about this reg.

To comment on long hose vs short hose a diver I respect has suggested to me there is no disadvantage in diving with 2 long hoses, you can still orient one on a necklace for yourself. Although I do not do this myself (cheapness, laziness ;D) I can't find a flaw in his argument!

If you guys want to check me out in action or flame me my friends new company shot a pretty cool wreck pen video of me in Vancouver Canada!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2setct3yh0

Kody
 
Kody, the reason for tank valves being both pointed inwards or outwards isn't for the purpose of being symmetrical. The idea of pointing them both inwards is to protect the rather delicate stem. The idea behind pointing them out is to make valve manipulation easier. With the tank knobs towards your body, you have to reach across your body to manipulate it and can't do both simultaneously easily, if at all. The idea of the knobs being protected, in my book, is completely undermined by the fact of where my knobs would sit....many want their knobs on their chest, but that trim looks AWFUL (and functions poorly :D).

As for the 2 long hoses, there have been plenty of reasons given in this thread against the double long hose. The primary one in my mind? Why have extra entanglement hazard if it's not needed. A buddy of mine was stuck (wedged) for 15 minutes due to a long hose...why would he add a second? Also, WHY are you diving sidemount if you can't deploy your (single) long hose quickly? You should be capable of that LONG before you start diving two tanks. It's an equipment solution to a skills problem, and we all know how that works out.

Your video likes like a lot of fun! I'd love to join you on those dives, once you figure out how to warm the water up a bit!! However, most of the SM technique in the video could use a bit of help. Regardless, welcome to the forum! Stop by the Intros&Greetings section to say hello.
 
Interesting. A couple of months ago I got a used MK15. Its main purpose was to serve as a test reg to hone my 1st stage servicing skills (just starting out). It leaked when I got it, made a bunch of newbie mistakes (see diy forum), spent 3-4 times the purchase price on parts (much more $ on tools), but eventually got it fixed and tuned (140 PSI IP after shimming). Anyhow, I have a decent understanding of how it works, it's a simple (in a good sense) piston design but nothing that says it's particularly well suited for cold water. I'll be diving in low 40s water (possibly high 30s) this weekend so maybe will try it out. One of the reasons I use sidemount is independent gas sources w/ easy to reach valves. The other 1st stage will be one of my cold water reg though.

I use a Mk15/G250 and Mk20/S600 in cold water all the time. Of the regulators I've used (Sherwood, Mares, US Divers/Aqualung, Dacor, Poseidon) they are the only ones that have NEVER freeflowed. I'm in Minnesota and my Scubapros have seen plenty of ice dives and Lake Superior.
 
Hey fellow Sidemounters .. this is my first post on Scuba Board, I felt compelled to add my 2 cents.

I have noticed a trend that I am not sure about with respect to your 4th point of inquiry, which is to have the handles both facing outward (or inward for that matter). Is this just to look symmetrical? I guess I have a very strong opinion on this because I can't really understand the argument for doing it this way. It makes a lot more sense to me to have the handles both facing the same way (which for me is to the left). My argument here is that in every situation it makes a lot more sense to be able to grab a tank handle and turn it away from my body to open the tank, and towards my body to close the tank. If there was any contact with your arms or with the ground (poor buoyancy control in open water or tight overheard environment) with a forward motion, the tanks would remain open. There is no opportunity for the valves to roll closed. Instinctively to me it also makes sense to have all tanks (maybe you are diving with 6!) to be able to open and close in the same direction.

Hopefully that makes sense.... if a diver with a differing opinion perhaps someone who dives with both valves facing outwards could explain his or her reasoning that would be awesome!

To comment on regs I have been using a scuba pro MK 25 since May 2010 when I first learned to dive, it has traveled with me wherever my diving adventures have taken me and NEVER let me down I really can't say enough things about this reg.

To comment on long hose vs short hose a diver I respect has suggested to me there is no disadvantage in diving with 2 long hoses, you can still orient one on a necklace for yourself. Although I do not do this myself (cheapness, laziness ;D) I can't find a flaw in his argument!

If you guys want to check me out in action or flame me my friends new company shot a pretty cool wreck pen video of me in Vancouver Canada!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2setct3yh0

Kody

I think a lot of it is to keep it synonomous with backmount... I have no idea why you would want to configure your cylinders with the valve knobs facing inwards but to each their own... d

If you are using Mirrored valves (i.e. a split twinset (Doubles for all you folk across the Atlantic)) then you're going to be used to the valve manipulation with the right rolling on towards you and the left rolling on away from you (This is mirrored in backmount unless I am mistaken).
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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