How many rebreathers do I need to teach?

[Dive-aholic]

If you can attend try days or call and talk to instructors who represent MORE THAN ONE BRAND. There are differences between all of them and each has their compromises, yes, even if you spend $15k. Matching the compromises with why you want one and what you'll be doing with it is the key to all of this.

My instructor can teach 5+ different units, dives more than that and has been doing so for over 20 years.

The above was posted in another thread. Rather than hijack that thread I thought I'd start my own since this is a completely different topic.

At this point I don't agree with the statement. I've done a few try days on different rebreathers. I've probably been on over half a dozen different rebreathers. After lots of research and trying out several dives I chose KISS rebreathers. KISS rebreathers have the best safety record. They are simple. They're robust. They have been used in lots of expedition dives all over the world. And I just like the way they breathe and operate. I own 3 KISS rebreathers and currently have 5 in my possession. I'm a KISS instructor and have thought about crossing over to other rebreathers but I just don't see the point. Personally, there are things about other rebreathers I've tried that don't work for me. No big deal. That's how it is with all gear. Some works better for some and not so well for others.

So what's the advantage of being able to teach 5+ different units (I'm reading this as brands because I can teach a few different units too but they're all KISS units).

 

[annasea]

I would think the point about talking with instructors who teach more than one brand is one hopes for impartiality and honesty. Obviously, the instructor who only teaches one brand only believes his/hers is the best.

From an instructor's perspective, the advantage of being able to teach multiple brands is the ability to increase one's income. Theoretically, an instructor who teaches 5 brands may have up to 5X the amount of students as the person only teaching one. I reckon most instructors teach on the side, but for those who rely on instruction as their income, this would definitely be a worthwhile investment.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Like I said, I did lots of research and found the unit I liked best and went with it. I don't think it's the best for everyone. It is the best for me, though. You can get impartiality and honesty from instructors who teach only one unit. What makes you think that an instructor who teach 5 units isn't going to have a favorite and be partial to that one?

I get the money thing. Not saying this is true of everyone but I know a few people in the industry that I consider sellouts. It's all about the money for them.

 

[wedivebc]

Like I said, I did lots of research and found the unit I liked best and went with it. I don't think it's the best for everyone. It is the best for me, though. You can get impartiality and honesty from instructors who teach only one unit. What makes you think that an instructor who teach 5 units isn't going to have a favorite and be partial to that one?

I get the money thing. Not saying this is true of everyone but I know a few people in the industry that I consider sellouts. It's all about the money for them.

I am certified to teach 5 different rebreathers however I focus on two. One because it is my favorite to dive and the other (to be completely honest) is for the marketability aspect of it. I don't think I could be an effective instructor if I spread myself too thin.

 

[annasea]

Like I said, I did lots of research and found the unit I liked best and went with it. I don't think it's the best for everyone. It is the best for me, though. You can get impartiality and honesty from instructors who teach only one unit. What makes you think that an instructor who teach 5 units isn't going to have a favorite and be partial to that one?

I get the money thing. Not saying this is true of everyone but I know a few people in the industry that I consider sellouts. It's all about the money for them.

Maybe, but I, personally, would expect more impartiality and honesty from someone who teaches multiple units than from someone who only teaches one. He or she may indeed be more partial to one unit over another, but inevitably it's up to the student/consumer to decide. If a student is partial towards a particular instructor's style of teaching, it benefits the student if the instructor is able to teach more than one unit.

Frankly, I don't care if an instructor is motivated by money or not as long as his/her teaching style is compatible with my learning style and has the necessary skills to help get me where I want to be.

 

[Dive-aholic]

The problem with money motivation is it can cause an instructor to lose impartiality. Rather than push a product that is better for a student, some money motivated instructors/shop owners will then tend to push the higher margin products.

 

[tstormdiver]

I would say it depends on cost vs benefit for the instructor. Rebreather instructor training can be very expensive,.. along with the cost of the units. Will or how long will it take to recoup the costs for the unit & the instruction? To be able to teach more than 1 unit, it would also take a time commitment to keep up to date on the skills specific to each unit, whether difficult or not. In many way, I would think it would be like myself as an OW instructor. That is the base of my "Scuba income", but by being able to teach various specialties, it adds to my income,... but there are some specialties I picked up, in which I wonder if they will ever pay themselves off. Nitrox has done so many times over, Solo breaks even every year,... Some other minor specialties, that aren't very popular,... probably will never pay themselves back for the investment... But overall makes me more marketable as an instructor, as I do have the ability to teach that particular course. My instructor started out being very critical of rebreathers, though he had tried many different units in the past. After going through a rebreather course on a recreational unit & seeing the current technology, he was impressed (but is still cautious of the things that can go wrong)with the safety features that have been developed over time. I & another technical student of his started looking into rebreathers that we could grow into for cave & other technical diving,.. that would breathe easy & relatively simple to operate. Our instructor was then training at instructor level on a unit that fit the bill we were looking for. Working in the same dive shop I have seen my instructor do extensive research on any of the units he teaches, I've seen him call & discuss different things with those considered at the top of those units to learn even more about them. He then passed that knowledge on to us as we learned on our units.

Back on topic...., Rob, I would say the instructor needs to weigh the risk (costs) vs rewards (how much income can be created by being more diverse). Can an instructor be too diverse??? As long as quality of instruction is present,... I would say no,... When quality of instruction is affected, then I would say that instructor has reached their limit.

 

[victorzamora]

So I'm kind of stuck on this one. On the one hand, I want an instructor to dive all configurations so that the instructor can have a good cross section of experience. An instructor should have more experience than I do, and their experience shouldn't be limited to teaching my class. However, I also want an instructor that specializes. I wouldn't want to take sidemount training from an instructor that primarily dives CCR, but used to dive SM. I wouldn't want to take an Optima course from an instructor that primarily dives GEMs but occasionally will dive an Optima for class. When making a decision, I want experience with all options....when taking a class, I want an instructor who has really specialized.

I agree it's hard to get an unbiased review from a targeted person. You can't ask Edd for an unbiased review of different sets of doubles, or you'll end up in sidemount.

I guess, to answer your question, if I decided I wanted to dive a GEM I'd look for an instructor that dives GEMs semi-exclusively. You would be a good choice. However, your opinion will do little to influence me into getting a GEM over other units. I think this is where a lot of people fall.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

At DEMA this year I was encouraged to give up the idea of teach open water recreational Sidemount course that one of our branches has in development for one agency I cert through and try to focus on getting people into "recreational" rebreathers. Sidemount I was told point blank in front of several other instructors was "too technical".

But if I were to just get instructor certified on the Poseidon MkVI I could increase my revenue stream, RENT the units out by the day, and get people into them quickly. Now I understand that this was coming from the guy who wrote our instructor course for it, but Jesus. I looked briefly into what this would entail and wow, just to get one unit for myself is going run 5-6 grand, then the training, then logging the hours I would want to have before even thinking of teaching it, and it just seemed ridiculous.

Now in some areas it may make sense. But not for me and that's just on one unit. Getting certed to dive multiple units, log the hours, and then go through the process of getting certed to teach them makes little sense in my current location and life status in general. I have only been on one unit. An AP systems for a try dive. After the first of the year I'm scheduled to try a Hollis. Maybe if I had the kind of income to justify even owning one I'd think about teaching it. But I simply don't and don't foresee that happening.

I don't think one needs to be certed on multiple units to be impartial. They just need to be an honest instructor in general. The same instructor that would tell a new OW student that they do not need a $100 mask, $40 snorkel, and $200 fins is the one I'd want to ask about what unit would be best for me. The instructor who would try to push those high dollar items on a new OW student is the one I'd never ask about anything again. Same with a rebreather. If Rob told me the Kiss would work for me but so would a Meg or an Inspiration and be just as good I'd honestly be more likely to take him up on that and train on the Kiss. But if he were to say to me the Kiss was the absolute best unit in the world for my type of diving and the others second to it, my BS meter would start going pretty good.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I almost got pulled into this myself a while back. I considered crossing over to another unit and found out I would only need 20 hours on the unit to be able to teach it. After that I didn't even need to be on the same unit while teaching it!