Master Diver Certification

[AfterDark]

You expect dive ops to base their risk assessment and liability off the fact that you're to cheap to spend the money on AOW to prove your skills and get certified? I've got news for you, just because you've been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean you've been doing it right, maybe you have or maybe you've been lucky. Maybe you should consider why we have standards and instructors. I can assure you it isn't to get rich off the pathetic amount of profit gained from training classes.

No I usually count on 40+ years of diving and close to 2000 logged dives, but no the AOW card is the ticket. You may like paying for things you do really need I don't.
I understand why we have standards. The training is piecemeal and limited. My "basic" dive course was 12 weeks longs 2 days per week 4 hours per day. We learned alot, we learned how to scuba dive. These days it's 12 different courses and thousands of dollars. I'm glad I'm finishing my diving days not just starting out.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

No I usually count on 40+ years of diving and close to 2000 logged dives, but no the AOW card is the ticket. You make like paying for things you do really need I don't.

How'd that work for you on the charter you last mentioned? Not too good.

Sucks I had to get an international drivers license to drive in other countries even though I've been driving for a few decades here just fine.

 

[Christi]

Pretty much the same thing happened with me. Did the OW class and just started diving. Then I was told I needed to take the AOW class or I would run into dive ops that wouldn't take you out unless you had it.

THAT was a PADI Instructor trying to sell you a class! There is not a dive shop in the world that would put an AOW c-card over 40 years of actual experience - unless they were trying to sell you a class - and another reason I am so disenchanted with PADI! Of COURSE I advocate training and dive education - I just don't particularly agree with PADI's marketing and manipulation for dumbed down training that REALLY doesn't get you any further unless you have an instructor that cares and is willing to REALLY teach you something and help improve your diving skills!

---------- Post added January 21st, 2013 at 12:45 PM ----------

You expect dive ops to base their risk assessment and liability off the fact that you're to cheap to spend the money on AOW to prove your skills and get certified? I've got news for you, just because you've been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean you've been doing it right, maybe you have or maybe you've been lucky. Maybe you should consider why we have standards and instructors. I can assure you it isn't to get rich off the pathetic amount of profit gained from training classes.

I agree with you to a certain extent - the years of experience doesn't mean he is doing it right - but doing the PADI AOW course also won't ensure that he's doing it "right"

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

THAT was a PADI Instructor trying to sell you a class! There is not a dive shop in the world that would put an AOW c-card over 40 years of actual experience - unless they were trying to sell you a class - and another reason I am so disenchanted with PADI! Of COURSE I advocate training and dive education - I just don't particularly agree with PADI's marketing and manipulation for dumbed down training that REALLY doesn't get you any further unless you have an instructor that cares and is willing to REALLY teach you something and help improve your diving skills!

If you want to do advanced dives below 60' on many charters in Florida you will have to have an advanced card. Of course you don't have to use a charter.

---------- Post added January 21st, 2013 at 01:50 PM ----------

I agree with you to a certain extent - the years of experience doesn't mean he is doing it right - but doing the PADI AOW course also won't ensure that he's doing it "right"

No lie there

 

[Christi]

That doesn't change the fact that proper training is currently available and some dive ops require it. Nor does it change the fact that his model of progression in no way reflects how we should be encouraging new divers to learn today.

That is subjective - regarding "proper training" - I am a PADI Instructor and have been for 12 years. I see PADI Instructors on a regular basis that have no business being an Instructor, as I am sure we all have. PADI's training standards are so minimal that it takes nothing to become a DM or Instructor these days - with that said - how can someone REALLY receive proper training from a newly minted PADI Instructor with 100 lake and pool dives under his/her belt? Off topic - but another thing that drives me insane are Dm's and Instructors, divers claiming an outrageous number of dives because they count every pool dive! DO the math - for example, how can a part time, weekend instructor, living in a landlocked area, who has only been diving for 8 years REALLY have 5000 dives? Think about it!

 

[BDSC]

for example, how can a part time, weekend instructor, living in a landlocked area, who has only been diving for 8 years REALLY have 5000 dives? Think about it!

About 4750 of those dives are likely "internet dives".

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

That is subjective - regarding "proper training" - I am a PADI Instructor and have been for 12 years. I see PADI Instructors on a regular basis that have no business being an Instructor, as I am sure we all have. PADI's training standards are so minimal that it takes nothing to become a DM or Instructor these days - with that said - how can someone REALLY receive proper training from a newly minted PADI Instructor with 100 lake and pool dives under his/her belt? Off topic - but another thing that drives me insane are Dm's and Instructors, divers claiming an outrageous number of dives because they count every pool dive! DO the math - for example, how can a part time, weekend instructor, living in a landlocked area, who has only been diving for 8 years REALLY have 5000 dives? Think about it!

PADI isn't the only game in town but I must agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Christi]

PADI isn't the only game in town but I must agree with the rest of your post.

Of course not - and I will qualify my PADI bashing to say that there are also some EXTREMELY competant and training/teaching oriented instructors that don't jsut go through the motions in the PADI Instructor Guides for each course. There ARE some great instructors and some horrible instructors with every agency. BUT, at the rate that PADI churns out instructors these days, and with the dumbed down standards and requirements - we are getting more and more unqualified PADI Instructors - and since it is the predominant training agency - when someone refers to having to get their AOW so they can dive beyond 60 ft - the PADI alarm goes off in my head!

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Of course not - and I will qualify my PADI bashing to say that there are also some EXTREMELY competant and training/teaching oriented instructors that don't jsut go through the motions in the PADI Instructor Guides for each course. There ARE some great instructors and some horrible instructors with every agency. BUT, at the rate that PADI churns out instructors these days, and with the dumbed down standards and requirements - we are getting more and more unqualified PADI Instructors - and since it is the predominant training agency - when someone refers to having to get their AOW so they can dive beyond 60 ft - the PADI alarm goes off in my head!

The standards for OW depth ratings are fairly universal if I'm not mistaken. 60' is the norm.

 

[fjpatrum]

PADI isn't the only game in town but I must agree with the rest of your post.

EDIT: It misquoted... I was responding to your post about the FL shops that require AOW for dives deeper than 60 feet or for advanced dives.

Please list them as I'd like to avoid those shops.

When looking for shops last year, every shop I called in the Keys and east coast of FL said they would accept experience shown in the last x months (where x was variant depending upon shop). Some said they may also require a "checkout dive" with a DM prior to doing "advanced" rec dives without AOW. Of the 8 or 10 shops I spoke with, though, NONE said they would refuse a dive to someone qualified to do the dive, with or without the AOW card.