Master Diver Certification

[Diver0001]

Good thing his goal isn't to start instructing because he feels he's ready huh?

Some people get up to speed faster than others. In my case I became a DM after about 900 dives and an instructor at some point after that; well after becoming a technical diver and having assisted with many OW courses. I felt I needed that level of experience in order to have the basic diving skills necessary to train OW divers.

Some people don't feel they need that level of experience.

R..

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Some people get up to speed faster than others. In my case I became a DM after about 900 dives and an instructor at some point after that; well after becoming a technical diver and having assisted with many OW courses. I felt I needed that level of experience in order to have the basic diving skills necessary to train OW divers.

Some people don't feel they need that level of experience.

R..

Getting up to speed fast and seeking the proper training is fine. The element missing here is the proper training.

TDI standards require at least 150 logged dives before even taking Deco Procedures and the minimum age is 18. I'll stand by my assessment that this diver is a liability based purely on his disregard for well established standards and his misunderstanding of his current training level.

 

[nimoh]

Getting up to speed fast and seeking the proper training is fine. The element missing here is the proper training.

TDI standards require at least 150 logged dives before even taking Deco Procedures and the minimum age is 18. I'll stand by my assessment that this diver is a liability based purely on his disregard for well established standards and his misunderstanding of his current training level.

I think the minimum requirement for TDI Deco Procedures is 18 years old, 75 OW dives, and advanced nitrox certification along with a depth limit of 150'

doesn't really affect your point though

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I think the minimum requirement for TDI Deco Procedures is 18 years old, 75 OW dives, and advanced nitrox certification along with a depth limit of 150'

doesn't really affect your point though

You are correct, I pulled it from the TDI Decompression Procedures Instructor Course work. I stand corrected.

 

[Diver0001]

I haven't been following the op that closely.

To me 150 dives is a start.

R..

 

[Peter Guy]

Cetus, while I'm sure that nothing I'll write will influence you at all, I hope that perhaps it will at least give you pause -- at least for a second or two.

I'm a PADI recreational instructor who also has some technical training. Because of what I felt was a hole in the PADI system, I created a new PADI Specialty (what PADI calls a "Distinctive Specialty") called TecReational Diver. It is aimed at you -- the recreational diver who is exploring the limits of "traditional" recreational diving. It is, in fact "Fundies Light" and may well be a stepping stone for some of my students to GUE Fundies or UTD Essentials.

Getting this PADI Card could well be considered a "learner's permit" towards technical diving -- although it is specifically stated that all diving is to be within the no stop limits. However, despite what Wiki might say, please, do NOT consider the MSD Card such a learner's permit. I, and every other PADI Recreational Diving instructor knows that is not true.

I wish my daughter had shown an interest in diving (hell, I wish my daughter had shown an interest in anything besides TV but that is another topic!). I was ecstatic that her son showed an interest along with a nephew (3 generations diving together) so I understand your joy at diving and learning with your daughter:



On a different, but related, topic, you wrote:

As a result we never owned any recreational equipment and the most logical next steps were/are to adopt the DIR philosophy and acquire correspondent training and experience.

You've made several comments about having "DIR gear" (or words to that effect). Unfortunately this merely shows what may be another hole in your education/training. Having doubles, a stage, long hose, etc. does not a technical (or DIR) diver make. There really is no such thing as "DIR gear" and, to the contrary, all the gear that is used by students taking Fundies and other GUE training is merely recreational equipment. "It ain't the gear that is technical, it is the dive." For what it's worth, I'm starting an open water class on Sunday with my student in a BP/W (single tank) with a long hose on her primary. This is merely recreational gear and a pet peave of mine.

Last comment -- perhaps the best instructor I ever had (a one time GUE instructor BTW) had this advice on diving and training -- "When you get bored with the diving you are doing, take the training to go up a level -- but stay at your level until it is boring."

 

[fnfalman]

Thinking you are ready and proving you are ready under the tutelage of a competent instructor are two different things. He's negligent in assuming he is qualified to asses his daughter's skills (or his) at his level.

From Cetus's postings, he doesn't sound like an idiot, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt (not that he needs any approval from me or anybody else). Maybe he has trainings and exposures to deco diving that neither you nor I know about.

---------- Post added January 18th, 2013 at 11:03 AM ----------

He's responsible for her safety. It does not mean that he has the right to encourage or allow her to do things that are known to be potentially crippling or fatal.

He's her freakin' father. Not you. He has the right to encourage her to do whatever he wants her to do. Be it doing light tech diving, go to church (or to mosque), shoot guns (or not), ad infinitum. He doesn't have the right to force her to do whatever he wants, but that's another story.

There isn't a huge difference in outcome. Screwing up a physical overhead dive will result in drowning and death. Screwing up a virtual overhead dive with a significant deco obligation will result in bobbing around on the surface foaming blood, then death. I'll leave it to others to decide which is worse.

And getting an embolism while rec diving will mess you up to. What's your point? Diving is dangerous.

The daughter is too young to give Informed Consent for a dangerous activity

I'm pretty sure that the agency/shop/instructor had gotten "parental consent" forms signed from her parent(s)...hint, hint.

, and Cetus doesn't have the right to make the decision for her.

She's a minor, who do you think have the right to make decisions for her? You? GUE instructors? Obama?

Neither has any training for any overhead dives.

flots.

So? Is there any law that dictates they have to have fancy training?

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

No, there is no law preventing him for doing what he's doing and we'd like to keep it that way by encouraging proper training to prevent unnecessary loss of life. Claiming that his PADI MSD gives him adequate knowledge to preform tech dives leads me to believe he is EXACTLY the sort of person these rules are designed for.

 

[TSandM]

I've had a fairly long private conversation with Cetus. As a result, I do not believe the dive they did was a technical dive by the definitions most of us use for technical diving -- in other words, they were never under a mandatory decompression obligation. This is quite possible at Lobos with a heavily multi-leveled dive, even with the posted maximum depth.

I'm beginning to believe that a lot of this hooferaw is just loose or inappropriate use of terminology.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I've had a fairly long private conversation with Cetus. As a result, I do not believe the dive they did was a technical dive by the definitions most of us use for technical diving -- in other words, they were never under a mandatory decompression obligation. This is quite possible at Lobos with a heavily multi-leveled dive, even with the posted maximum depth.

I'm beginning to believe that a lot of this hooferaw is just loose or inappropriate use of terminology.

Thank you!


Cetus, congratulations on your MSD and also on a dive that must have been an heck of a lot of fun with your daughter! I am counting down the days until my girl turns twelve.