Equipment Modifications for Sidemount Diving

[Karl_H]

Sorry guys but this post is very wrong, if you really want to save money then don’t switch to side mount, most of the real benefits for cave, wreck or open water are lost with the harness shown above?

If you want the benefits of sidemount, get an actual sidemount harness and the right training – otherwise, why change from backmount?

 

[DevonDiver]

Sorry guys but this post is very wrong, if you really want to save money then don’t switch to side mount, most of the real benefits for cave, wreck or open water are lost with the harness shown above?

If you want the benefits of sidemount, get an actual sidemount harness and the right training – otherwise, why change from backmount?

Karl, what I see in this post (and diving trends) is the results of PADI promoting sidemount as a main-stream option. People want to "try it", but don't want to make the investment/commitment towards buying a rig prior to that sampler/initial training. For non-specialist (tech/wreck/cave) divers, that can be understood. The merits of sidemount for open-water divers are quite intangible, other than personal comfort and a wealth of gas redundancy.

However, I do agree that the role of the training-provider is to actually serve the desire of sidemount students to 'try sidemount'... and that means investment in appropriate rental gear for students to use.

As an aside, the OMS Tesseract/Profile system is an "actual sidemount system" - yet that comes (as standard) with a metal backplate.. and looks distinctly like the example given in this thead. The example given merely substitutes a second back-plate for the Profile Adapter system. I can imagine the diving 'feel' is similar. However, the system is far from ideal for confined spaces diving... but that's not what we're talking about (OP references 'open-water' specifically).

All my sidemount students thus far have been put into either Razor or Hollis rigs for training (or have arrived with their own) - and that includes recreational/open-water divers. I do have my 'first' student booked early next year who wants to undertake the course in a modified BP&W. That is/will take a lot more effort on my behalf - helping him configure and adapt what he has for his intended purposes (recreational wreck diving). You can (honestly) make a decent rig DIY... using existing components... but it takes considerable tinkering and adaptation. Not something I'd want to do with every sidemount student, but my courses are hardly 'off-the-shelf'.. much more mentoring involved.

My personal opinion is that the OP should make the ~$120 investment and put "proper" OMS adapters on his sidemount. It's a far better solution than a secondary back-plate, at little extra cost.... and, at least, it is a "proper" solution.

Lest we forget: sidemount is not yet set-in-stone and the Razor/UTD/X-Deep design isn't necessarily the only way to approach it

 

[Karl_H]

Andy,

I see your point but don't forget sidemount is not a new system, it's been used in the cave community for a long time and most of these modified versions were tried and rejected. Some companies lost way a little around the same time and are still trying to flog a dead horse with these systems (read as OMS) but otherwise a common consensus is been reached on which systems work well and which don't.

PADI have really brought sidemount into the limelight so to speak but have also been responsible a new draft of sidemount divers, this could work out well in terms of new ideas but re-inventing things which don’t work and then preaching about the benefits of these systems isn’t evolution.

Razor changed warm water sidemount with the harness they developed, but they never really worked out the bladder. UTD copied the razor harness but made a great bladder for warm water, Hollis tried to copy both their lack of warm water sidemount experience really shows in the SMS50 where the butt-plate is useless without steel tanks but the lift is not sufficient?

Right now Razor, UTD and X-Deep are leading the way in warm water sidemount, while some other manufacturers are still living in the sidemount equivalent of the horse collar and double hose reg era of diving. Buying a branded harness can be expensive but it’s very easy to put one together at a lower price, after all that’s what we were doing before the sidemount boom of the last two years? They key is putting one together that works and let’s remember that’s very different for a cold water and a warm water environment.

I’d be very reluctant to offer ‘try sidemount’ courses without using the right equipment, otherwise I may as well name my courses ‘try a modified backmount rig with the tanks at the side’ course? If someone specifically asks to use a modified harness then perhaps, but to offer them discover sidemount in this kind of rig is bordering on fraud…

 

[DevonDiver]

I see your point but don't forget sidemount is not a new system, it's been used in the cave community for a long time and most of these modified versions were tried and rejected. Some companies lost way a little around the same time and are still trying to flog a dead horse with these systems (read as OMS) but otherwise a common consensus is been reached on which systems work well and which don't.

I agree completely. Virtually the same argument applies to BP&W compared to Jacket BCDs.

PADI have really brought sidemount into the limelight so to speak but have also been responsible a new draft of sidemount divers, this could work out well in terms of new ideas but re-inventing things which don’t work and then preaching about the benefits of these systems isn’t evolution.

Ha ha... who'd be guilty of assuming that PADI ever 'evolved' anything?

It's lowest-common-denominator dive training, taught by instructor-drones and (often) marketed on the basis of low-cost. Sidemount instructors are dropping off the conveyor-belt with little/no experience with sidemount diving, and no background in tech/cave/wreck disciplines. They know only what's in the manual... except there isn't currently a manual... so they only know what they've been told. Considering some of the Course Directors out there are now providing 'Sidemount Instructor' qualifications - when they, themselves, have no back-ground or experience in sidemount.... well, you can see where it's gone...

I was recently chuckling over some Facebook photos of another new Phil-based "Sidemount Instructor"... he was just stage-mounting his cylinders.. no hose management..no bungees.. etc etc. An abomination.

This is basically creating a two-tier sidemount world. That which is taught by 'true' sidemount divers - who can draw upon significant experience and a background in sidemount use for cave/wreck etc. And that which is taught by 'zero-to-hero' sidemount 'instructors' who have little credible experience and are simply trying to interpret/present an outline syllabus without a depth of subject knowledge.

Razor changed warm water sidemount with the harness they developed, but they never really worked out the bladder. UTD copied the razor harness but made a great bladder for warm water, Hollis tried to copy both their lack of warm water sidemount experience really shows in the SMS50 where the butt-plate is useless without steel tanks but the lift is not sufficient?

We should hook up soon... I need to trial that UTD sidemount

Right now Razor, UTD and X-Deep are leading the way in warm water sidemount, while some other manufacturers are still living in the sidemount equivalent of the horse collar and double hose reg era of diving. Buying a branded harness can be expensive but it’s very easy to put one together at a lower price, after all that’s what we were doing before the sidemount boom of the last two years? They key is putting one together that works and let’s remember that’s very different for a cold water and a warm water environment.

That difference... cold water versus warm water is one thing I wish the agency (PADI) would recognize. Specificity of configuration, or enforced lack of it..., is also one of the issues that (I think) the OP is trying to express/resolve.

I’d be very reluctant to offer ‘try sidemount’ courses without using the right equipment, otherwise I may as well name my courses ‘try a modified backmount rig with the tanks at the side’ course? If someone specifically asks to use a modified harness then perhaps, but to offer them discover sidemount in this kind of rig is bordering on fraud…

I agree 100%. There'll be plenty of 'fraudulent' sidemount around soon enough...

 

[Karl_H]

Andy - spot on I think

 

[DevonDiver]

Karl... looking at the UTD systems available - there's no option for redundant bladder. That's the only problem I can see... as this is a requirement for PADI courses. Drysuits aren't really a practicable option here in the Phils (although I know some DIR adepts use them). Only the Razor, SMS100 and OMS Tesseract seem to be providing that option. The UTD and the X-Deep effectively eliminate themselves from the (PADI) recreational market for that reason - unacceptable according to standards.

 

[DevonDiver]

Hollis tried to copy both their lack of warm water sidemount experience really shows in the SMS50 where the butt-plate is useless without steel tanks but the lift is not sufficient?

Perhaps, this is a case for modification? Not tried the SMS50 yet, so can't comment on the buttplate performance... but Steve Martin illustrates how he (pre-Razor) addressed some of the short-comings...

 

[Karl_H]

Warm water and redundant bladder really don't go together until we look at much deeper dives but unfortunately is still a standard with the TecRec programmes unless you have a written exemption.

The old MSR bladders used for the original Razor harness are the best option, they can be rolled up and stored in a pocket or mounted flat under the other bladder as they are mounted simply using a bungee tied to each end of the bladder and routed through the crotch strap (actually the Razor wing hasn't changed much!).

The X-Deep bladder looks perfrect for this too, it's just an expensive option for a back-up only! The MSR options are much cheaper - you can pick them up for around 2,500 php in Makati. All you need is a bit of bungee, a small clip and it's ready to go. It's easy to add a OPV dump valve in the centre too if you want a deluxe model.

 

[DevonDiver]

The MSR options are much cheaper - you can pick them up for around 2,500 php in Makati. All you need is a bit of bungee, a small clip and it's ready to go. It's easy to add a OPV dump valve in the centre too if you want a deluxe model.

Where in Makati? Not seen them around?

 

[Karl_H]

Perhaps, this is a case for modification? Not tried the SMS50 yet, so can't comment on the buttplate performance... but Steve Martin illustrates how he (pre-Razor) addressed some of the short-comings...

View attachment 142309

The SMS50 comes with a fixed buttplate as part of the harness, the d-rings are fixed and don't really do much except get in the way, the butt plate would also block a rear d-ring on the crotch strap. the attached image shows this a little clearer, honestly, there is an SMS50 in the picture, it just takes a while to spot.

Basically you need to add d-rings to the harness waist strap for tank mounting (basically copy the Razor concept) but are still left with two awkward and not particularly useful d-rings. I'd also get rid of the very thick independent bungees and go for a single continuous bungee as the thicker bungee doesn't mount tanks well while the majority of Philippine resorts don't have extended stem values so the continuous bungee allows you to double wrap the left tank and still even out the bungee between the tanks so both are at the same tension/support level.

Sadly the SMS50 is a cold water concept with a warm water bladder, it's been well marketed though - the example image shows that too!