Boat capsized in pompano beach?

[Johnoly]

A small craft warning or advisory is non binding, meaning that there are no rules to follow just because one is posted.

IMHO us divers want it "non-binding". In other countries a harbor master / navy official will "close the Inlet/port" and no smaller boats can go out or risk getting arrested. Since they tend to err on the conservative side (2 feet or less), us divers would never get on the water.

I myself & me base my decision to go out by knowing the boat, the captain's experience, the inlet live webcam, and how much Triptone I have. Jupiter divers will go out in 7 - 9 footers as long as we have a 10 - 12 second intervals and a fast prop. I agree, we don't want the CG making the decision to close our inlets, or we'll never get to go diving.

 

[Nemrod]

I was wondering when someone would mention that. Are captains expected to follow up on those instructions and actively direct their passengers to don pfd's prior to attempting to cross the shallow bar/inlet mouth when the conditions are dangerous?

My response here has nothing to do with this incident specifically. In the USA, which is still, amazingly, for a little while longer a free country you are allowed to take risks (with your money,your property and your life). People need to recognize that our invented concept of all surrounding safety is a novel, new and largely fabricated concept. Only children need wear jackets and then only in boats under a certain size (20 feet if I recall).

Some inlets are ALWAYS dangerous. The sea is ALWAYS dangerous. Life is dangerous and it comes with no guarantee of safety. Certain risks are taken as we go about our lives, occasionally bad things can and do happen. We cannot go around passing laws and more regulations to provide guaranteed 100% safety because as I said, that is a fabrication of the modern mind, not reality.

I will think of and pray for all involved in this specific, tragic incident.

N

 

[Reck Diver]

Jupiter divers will go out in 7 - 9 footers as long as we have a 10 - 12 second intervals and a fast prop. .

How often do we see these conditions? Not very often or we would be more of a world class surfing destination than a dive spot.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

My response here has nothing to do with this incident specifically. In the USA, which is still, amazingly, for a little while longer a free country you are allowed to take risks (with your money,your property and your life). People need to recognize that our invented concept of all surrounding safety is a novel, new and largely fabricated concept. Only children need wear jackets and then only in boats under a certain size (20 feet if I recall).

Some inlets are ALWAYS dangerous. The sea is ALWAYS dangerous. Life is dangerous and it comes with no guarantee of safety. Certain risks are taken as we go about our lives, occasionally bad things can and do happen. We cannot go around passing laws and more regulations to provide guaranteed 100% safety because as I said, that is a fabrication of the modern mind, not reality.

I will think of and pray for all involved in this specific, tragic incident.

N

I've not advocated for more laws, nor said the captain was negligent or anything like that.

My question was specific to what a CG certified vessel operator who is running a charter is expected to ("technically") do when unusually dangerous conditions present themselves. Failure to follow certain guidelines may have zero consequences.... until a tragic accident occurs; then I could imagine it being very important. Especially if a downing occurred that might have been avoidable had the passenger been wearing a pfd.

 

[danvolker]

I've not advocated for more laws, nor said the captain was negligent or anything like that.

My question was specific to what a CG certified vessel operator who is running a charter is expected to ("technically") do when unusually dangerous conditions present themselves. Failure to follow certain guidelines may have zero consequences.... until a tragic accident occurs; then I could imagine it being very important. Especially if a downing occurred that might have been avoidable had the passenger been wearing a pfd.

I think there is an element of good luck or bad luck in this....The biggest threat that I can see to a diver, is having the boat flip over on top of them, trapping them....this would be potentially worse with the pfd on.... Certainly having tanks hit you during the rollover can't be ignored as potentially causing unconsciusness....but flotation in an upside down sinking boat will not help much with this either....

I think a general boating population should be regarded differently, as it could have a significant percentage of non-swimmers as possible--however on a scuba charter boat, the population of non-swimmers should be zero...plus as divers, they should be expected to have multiple flotation options available to their own discretion, including wet suits, BC's, and fins/mask and snorkel solutions.....

 

[Scott L]

Small Craft Advisory was posted at the time. Could it be argued that the Captain was reckless for risking the safety of his passengers given the conditions?

I bring it up because the incident continues to have life. This morning on the Paul and Young Ron Radio program, they talked quite a bit about the incident.

Yes it is a tragedy, but might have been an avoidable one.

Hmm, yeah. The vast majority of the charter dive operators in S. Florida decided to stay in port that day. Also, throw in a catamaran hull contending with a turbulent inlet...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think there is an element of good luck or bad luck in this....The biggest threat that I can see to a diver, is having the boat flip over on top of them, trapping them....this would be potentially worse with the pfd on.... Certainly having tanks hit you during the rollover can't be ignored as potentially causing unconsciusness....but flotation in an upside down sinking boat will not help much with this either....

I think a general boating population should be regarded differently, as it could have a significant percentage of non-swimmers as possible--however on a scuba charter boat, the population of non-swimmers should be zero...plus as divers, they should be expected to have multiple flotation options available to their own discretion, including wet suits, BC's, and fins/mask and snorkel solutions.....

I love to argue with you Dan, but if a person were trapped under a boat (not inside) while wearing a pfd, I think it is reasonable to expect them to be able to crawl across the deck and reach the side and ascend. If they are knocked unconscious immediately or pass out trapped underneath, they still might be recoverable by a good swimmer (who may have ditched his pfd). In any regard, I doubt the USCG is going to make rules for normal people and special ones for passengers that have scuba certifications.

 

[danvolker]

I love to argue with you Dan, but if a person were trapped under a boat (not inside) while wearing a pfd, I think it is reasonable to expect them to be able to crawl across the deck and reach the side and ascend. If they are knocked unconscious immediately or pass out trapped underneath, they still might be recoverable by a good swimmer (who may have ditched his pfd). In any regard, I doubt the USCG is going to make rules for normal people and special ones for passengers that have scuba certifications.

I don't have any expectation that the CG will pay any attention whatsoever to my feelings on this matter....and I don't think this is a place where any legal decision or culpability will be decided...However, I am telling a large group of divers, that as a diver, I think it would be foolish for one of us to pay any attention to the PFD regulations.... I would ignore it absolutely, and do what I thought best for myself and buddy(s). If there were some sheep grazing on the boat, I'd make sure they had pfd's on and plenty to eat.

 

[Scott L]

There will be some fast jockeying by plaintiffs to get a piece of the boat's liability coverage, which I am guessing is no more than $1M. There well be no trials, Etc. The policy will pay out the full limit of coverage...

 

[fdarden]

First we had cyber divers in this thread, and then cyber-captains. It only stands to reason that now the cyber-attorneys are chiming in. Isnt it about time to put this thread to rest? I think a cyber-psychic would be the next appropriate poster otherwise.